It's all on the circle

Geometry Level 2

Given that a , b , c a,b,c and d d are 4 distinct non-zero real numbers such that the points ( a , 1 a ) \left(a,\dfrac{1}{a}\right) , ( b , 1 b ) \left(b,\dfrac{1}{b}\right) , ( c , 1 c ) \left(c,\dfrac{1}{c}\right) and ( d , 1 d ) \left(d,\dfrac{1}{d}\right) lie on a circle.

Find the value of a × b × c × d a\times b\times c\times d .


The answer is 1.

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3 solutions

Akhil Bansal
Dec 22, 2015

Let equation of circle is x 2 + y 2 + 2 g x + 2 f y + c = 0 x^2 + y^2 + 2gx + 2fy + c = 0
Since, ( a , 1 a ) \left(a , \dfrac{1}{a}\right) lies on circle, we get
a 2 + 1 a 2 + 2 g a + 2 f ( 1 a ) + c = 0 \large a^2 + \dfrac{1}{a^2} + 2ga + 2f\left(\dfrac{1}{a}\right) + c = 0 a 4 + 1 + 2 g a 3 + 2 f a + c a 2 = 0 \large a^4 + 1 + 2ga^3 + 2fa + ca^2 = 0 Using Vieta's formula , a b c d = 1 \large \displaystyle \sum abcd = 1

Moderator note:

What else can we say about how a , b , c , d a, b, c, d are related?

Applied same

Righved K - 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't think you want the summation sign in the last equation.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 5 months ago

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Definately a , b , c , d a,b,c,d all can't be real..

Akhil Bansal - 5 years, 5 months ago

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Are you sure? Doesn't the question state that they are all real values? I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 5 months ago

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@Calvin Lin Yes, questions says that a , b , c , d a,b,c,d are real numbers but I think there are no such real points that satisfy the given condition.

Akhil Bansal - 5 years, 5 months ago

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@Akhil Bansal Not true. Take any circle that intersects the hyperbola y = 1 x y = \frac{1}{x} at 4 points. For example, with r > 1 r > 1 , the 4 distinct points ( r , 1 r ) , ( 1 r , r ) , ( r , 1 r ) , ( 1 r , r ) (r, \frac{1}{r}), ( \frac{1}{r}, r ) , ( -r, - \frac{1}{r} ), ( -\frac{1}{r} , - r ) would lie on a circle centered on the origin of radius r 2 + 1 r 2 r^2 + \frac{1}{r^2} .

The slightly more interesting case occurs when we have an "arbitrary" circle placed, where it's not immediately obvious that a b c d = 1 a bcd = 1 .

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 5 months ago
Pulkit Gupta
Dec 22, 2015

On substituting the values ( a , 1 a ) \left(a,\dfrac{1}{a}\right) , ( b , 1 b ) \left(b,\dfrac{1}{b}\right) , ( c , 1 c ) \left(c,\dfrac{1}{c}\right) and ( d , 1 d ) \left(d,\dfrac{1}{d}\right) in the standard form of circle ( x 2 + y 2 + 2 g x + 2 f y + c = 0 (x^2 + y^2 + 2gx + 2fy + c = 0 , we obtain four cyclic equations.

Note that if we swap, say ( a , 1 a ) \left(a,\dfrac{1}{a}\right) with ( 1 a , a ) \left(\dfrac{1}{a},a\right) the equations remain unchanged. Clearly, then 1 a \large \frac{1}{a} = a.

Also, since the equations are cyclic a = b = c = d \large a =b = c=d . 1 \large 1 & 1 \large -1 satisfiy the required conditions.

But a , b , c a, b, c and d d are 4 distinct non-zero real numbers.

Zuriel Aquino - 4 years, 1 month ago
Andrea la Monaca
Dec 25, 2015

If you think about the plot of the function 1/x that intersects a circumference whose center is the origin of the axes, their common points are 4. For the symmetry of 1/x respect (0,0) these points have equal and opposite x coordinate from two in two. Being also points of the circumference the problem is sym respect (0,0) so the same process can be repeated thinking in terms of the y coordinate. In particoular consider two points that have x coordinates (a,1/a) and (-a,-1/a), for symmetry the other two points have to have the y coordinate as a and -a , finally their x coordinates are 1/a and -1/a.

In the end the result of (a)(-1/a)(-a)(1/a) is 1

Not true. There are many other possibilities that do not arise from having { a , b , c , d } = { r , r , 1 r , 1 r } \{a, b, c, d \} = \{ r, -r, \frac{1}{r}, - \frac{1}{r} \} .

You are making the assumption that the circle must be centered at the origin, which is not necessarily true. For example, we could have a circle of radius 100, centered at ( 1 , 0 ) (1, 0) which intersects the curve y = 1 x y = \frac{1}{x} at 4 points.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 5 months ago

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You're right. I didn't pretend to demonstrate this way the result in its generality, for all cases. My purpose was to explain how I easily solved the problem just thinking about a simple case.

Andrea la Monaca - 5 years, 5 months ago

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