JEE Novice - (6)

Geometry Level 3

The sides of a triangle have lengths 11 , 15 , k 11 , 15 , k where k k is an integer. For how many value(s) of k k is the triangle obtuse?


This question is a part of JEE Novices .


The answer is 13.

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3 solutions

Vaibhav Prasad
May 26, 2015

A really nice question, Nihar Mahajan

The Pythagoras Theorem states that

a 2 + b 2 = c 2 a^2+b^2=c^2 for a r i g h t a n g l e d right-angled triangle

Just twist it a little bit and you get

a 2 + b 2 < c 2 a^2+b^2<c^2 for an o b t u s e a n g l e d obtuse-angled triange

Now, here we have two cases :

CASE 1 \text{CASE 1}

1 1 2 + 1 5 2 < c 2 11^2+15^2<c^2

So we would need all c c starting from 19 ( 1 9 2 = 361 > 1 1 2 + 1 5 2 ) 19 (19^2=361>11^2+15^2) to 25 ( 11 + 15 = 26 25 (11+15=26 which must be greater than the third side, c ) c) , i.e, 7 \boxed{7} numbers.

CASE 2 \text{CASE 2}

1 1 2 + b 2 < 1 5 2 11^2+b^2<15^2

Now we would need all b b starting from 5 ( 11 + 5 = 16 5 (11+5=16 which must be greater than the third side, 15 ) 15) to 10 ( 1 1 2 + 1 0 2 > 1 5 2 ) 10 (11^2+10^2>15^2) , i.e, 6 \boxed{6} numbers.

Hence, the number of solutions for k k is 13 \large {\boxed{13}} .

Upvote it if you liked it.

We know that c 2 = a 2 + b 2 2 a b × cos θ c^2=a^2+b^2-2ab\times \cos\theta ,but cos θ \cos\theta would be negative for obtuse angles θ \theta hence, c 2 > a 2 + b 2 c^2>a^2+b^2 for obtuse angled triangles.

Adarsh Kumar - 6 years ago

I forgot the second case ;(

John Taylor - 6 years ago

This seems like a nice and simple solution, although I'm having difficulty understanding how you figured out both the upper and lower bounds in both cases because your method seems to give only a single bound in each case (lower bound in first case and upper bound in second case). You also didn't analyze the case of angle A A being obtuse, if I understand your solution correctly. Anyway, I didn't know that we can extend the Pythagorean Theorem for obtuse triangles like that.

I did it in quite a complicated way using the law of cosines and then solving a few quadratic inequalities and comparing bounds. Also used the fact that a linear polynomial is little-o of a quadratic polynomial.


Here's my approach (if anyone cares):

Denote the triangle as Δ ABC \Delta\textrm{ABC} where the sides A B , B C , C A AB,BC,CA are (w.l.o.g) k , 11 , 15 k,11,15 respectively. By the Law of Cosines, we have,

cos ( A ) = 104 + k 2 30 k , cos ( B ) = k 2 104 22 k , cos ( C ) = 346 k 2 330 \cos(A)=\frac{104+k^2}{30k}~,~\cos(B)=\frac{k^2-104}{22k}~,~\cos(C)=\frac{346-k^2}{330}

We use the fact that the cosine of any obtuse angle ( 1 , 0 ) \in (-1,0) and check the three cases respectively.

If A A is obtuse, you get 0 < ( k + 26 ) ( k + 4 ) < 30 k 0\lt (k+26)(k+4)\lt 30k . Even at k = 0 k=0 (which cannot be a valid k k ). the MHS is greater than RHS and using the "little-o" fact, we can easily conclude that there are no positive real solutions for k k when A A is obtuse. (this covers positive integral solutions too).


If B B is obtuse, you get 0 < ( k + 26 ) ( k 4 ) < 22 k 0\lt (k+26)(k-4)\lt 22k . Considering the LHS-MHS part, you get the solution set for k k as ( , 26 ) ( 4 , ) (-\infty,-26)\cup (4,\infty) . Now, taking into account the RHS (upper bound) and noting that the upper bound doesn't hold for k = 11 k=11 (but holds for k = 10 k=10 ), we can again use the "little-o" argument to get the solution set of k k as ( 4 , 11 ) (4,11) .


If C C is obtuse, you get 0 < 676 k 2 < 330 0\lt 676-k^2\lt 330 . The LHS-MHS part gives us k < 26 k\lt 26 and the MHS-RHS part gives us k > 18 k\gt 18 . Combining the two, we have k ( 18 , 26 ) k\in (18,26) .

Now, we simply collect the solution sets from the possible cases which is the following set (interval union): ( 4 , 11 ) ( 18 , 26 ) (4,11)\cup (18,26) . We can easily count the number of positive integral solutions for k k to be 13 13 , and we're done.

Prasun Biswas - 6 years ago

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Woah! You can post it as a separate solution which will contribute to different approaches to solve this problem.

Nihar Mahajan - 6 years ago

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Would it work if I post it as a comment here?

Prasun Biswas - 6 years ago

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@Prasun Biswas Yeah , its okay to post a comment. But I recommend you to post it as a separate solution. (Your choice).

Nihar Mahajan - 6 years ago

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@Nihar Mahajan Nah, I'll post it as a comment then. This solution already has 5 upvotes and is simpler than my approach, so it's best to comment. :D

Prasun Biswas - 6 years ago

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@Prasun Biswas No problem. If you post a solution/comment , I am sure to upvote it :D (if its correct)

Nihar Mahajan - 6 years ago

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@Nihar Mahajan Done! Check my first comment. I edited it to include my approach. :)

Prasun Biswas - 6 years ago

@Prasun Biswas

I have edited the solution according to your convinience

Vaibhav Prasad - 6 years ago

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Thanks for the clarification. I realize now that it was quite obvious. I need to revise elementary classical geometry again. :\ Nonetheless, thanks for the simple solution. Upvoted! :)

Prasun Biswas - 6 years ago

Obtuse angle mean 90 <@<180 Considering c^2=a^2+b^2-2ab cos@ For @=180 eq will bcom c^2=(a+b)^2 C=a+b so we got the upper limit

Aashirvad Raj - 5 years, 6 months ago

C o r r e c t ! \huge Correct!

Nihar Mahajan - 6 years ago

Best question best solution

Aarush Priyankaj - 2 years, 9 months ago
William Isoroku
May 27, 2015

There are 2 possible ranges for k k :

1 1 2 + 1 5 2 < k < 1 1 2 + 1 5 2 2 ( 11 ) ( 15 ) c o s ( 180 ) \sqrt{11^2+15^2}<k<\sqrt{11^2+15^2-2(11)(15)cos(180)}

Or

4 < k < 104 4<k<\sqrt{104}

4 4 came from 1 5 2 = 1 1 2 + k 2 2 ( 11 k ) c o s ( 180 ) 15^2=11^2+k^2-2(11k)cos(180)

And

104 = 1 5 2 1 1 2 \sqrt{104}=\sqrt{15^2-11^2}

Moderator note:

Can you check your working?

Siva Meesala
Oct 3, 2015

By using pythogorus property and properties of triangle (sum of two sides is greater than third side)We will solve this as k has 13 solutions

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