Journey with alpha and beta

Algebra Level 4

Let α \alpha and β \beta be the roots of x 2 6 x 2 x^{2} - 6x -2 , with α > β \alpha > \beta . If a n = α n β n a_{n} = \alpha^{n} - \beta^{n} for n > 1 n>1 , then find the value of a 10 2 a 8 2 a 9 \dfrac{a_{10} - 2a_{8}}{2a_{9}} .


The answer is 3.

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4 solutions

Chew-Seong Cheong
Mar 19, 2016

Since α \alpha and β \beta are roots of x 2 6 x 2 = 0 x^2 - 6x-2=0 or x 2 = 6 x + 2 x^2 = 6x +2 . Then, α 2 = 6 α + 2 \alpha^2 = 6\alpha +2 and β 2 = 6 β + 2 \beta^2 = 6\beta +2 . Therefore,

a 10 2 a 8 2 a 9 = α 10 β 10 2 ( α 8 β 8 ) 2 a 9 = α 8 ( α 2 2 ) β 8 ( β 2 2 ) 2 a 9 = α 8 ( 6 α + 2 2 ) β 8 ( 6 β + 2 2 ) 2 a 9 = 6 α 9 6 β 9 2 a 9 = 6 a 9 2 a 9 = 3 \begin{aligned} \frac{a_{10}-2a_8}{2a_9} & = \frac{\alpha^{10}-\beta^{10}-2(\alpha^8-\beta^8)}{2a_9} \\ & = \frac{\alpha^8(\alpha^2-2)-\beta^8(\beta^2-2)}{2a_9} \\ & = \frac{\alpha^8(6\alpha+2-2)-\beta^8(6\beta+2-2)}{2a_9} \\ & = \frac{6\alpha^9-6\beta^9}{2a_9} = \frac{6a_9}{2a_9} = \boxed{3} \end{aligned}

Otto Bretscher
Mar 19, 2016

We have a n + 2 = 6 a n + 1 + 2 a n a_{n+2}=6a_{n+1}+2a_n . For n = 8 n=8 this gives a 10 2 a 8 2 a 9 = 3 \frac{a_{10}-2a_8}{2a_9}=\boxed{3} .

Let me spell it out step by step.

We have α 2 = 6 α + 2 \alpha^2=6\alpha+2 since α \alpha is a root. Multiplying with α n \alpha^n we see that α n + 2 = 6 α n + 1 + 2 α n \alpha^{n+2}=6\alpha^{n+1}+2\alpha^n (Equation I) Likewise, β n + 2 = 6 β n + 1 + 2 β n \beta^{n+2}=6\beta^{n+1}+2\beta^n (Equation II). Subtracting (I)-(II) gives a n + 2 = 6 a n + 1 + 2 a n a_{n+2}=6a_{n+1}+2a_n .

Nice one liner by you as always.

Kushagra Sahni - 5 years, 2 months ago

Sir, how to establish recursive relations like these ?

Aditya Sky - 5 years, 2 months ago

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If α \alpha and β \beta are the roots of x 2 p x q x^2-px-q and we let a n = c 1 α n + c 2 β n a_n=c_1\alpha^n+c_2\beta^n for some constants c 1 , c 2 c_1,c_2 , then the recursion a n + 2 = p a n + 1 + q a n a_{n+2}=pa_{n+1}+qa_n holds.

This simple observation makes problems like this quick and routine.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 2 months ago

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Could you also prove how you got the equations for this general equations,please?

Puneet Pinku - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Puneet Pinku It's the same process: We have α 2 = p α + q \alpha^2=p\alpha+q since α \alpha is a root. Multiplying with α n \alpha^n we see that α n + 2 = p α n + 1 + q α n \alpha^{n+2}=p\alpha^{n+1}+q\alpha^n (Equation I) Likewise, β n + 2 = p β n + 1 + q β n \beta^{n+2}=p\beta^{n+1}+q\beta^n (Equation II). Adding c 1 ( I ) + c 2 ( I I ) c_1(I)+c_2(II) gives a n + 2 = p a n + 1 + q a n a_{n+2}=pa_{n+1}+qa_n .

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher Well, what about the constants c1 and c2 you placed in the assumption of a^n . how do we get them.( ^ is used here to refer subscript not exponent)

Puneet Pinku - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Puneet Pinku Check the algebra! It all works out...

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher Hmm we multiplied c1 and c2 to the equations. Sorry, I by mistake did not see it. Thankyou very much sir..

Puneet Pinku - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Puneet Pinku My pleasure. This is a useful technique to know when dealing with linear combinations of the powers of the roots of a quadratic polynomial.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 2 months ago

But still the problem gets complicated as we need to calculate a8, a9 and a10 which is a very tedious job right?

Puneet Pinku - 5 years, 2 months ago

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No... look at my comment below. There is no numerical computation required at all.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 2 months ago

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Sir, now I got it. We have to substitute for a10 right so that a8 terms cancel out then a9 terms and lastly we get 6\2 to get 3..

Puneet Pinku - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Puneet Pinku Sure! Let me spell it out step by step.

We have α 2 = 6 α + 2 \alpha^2=6\alpha+2 since α \alpha is a root. Multiplying with α n \alpha^n we see that α n + 2 = 6 α n + 1 + 2 α n \alpha^{n+2}=6\alpha^{n+1}+2\alpha^n (Equation I) Likewise, β n + 2 = 6 β n + 1 + 2 β n \beta^{n+2}=6\beta^{n+1}+2\beta^n (Equation II). Subtracting (I)-(II) gives a n + 2 = 6 a n + 1 + 2 a n a_{n+2}=6a_{n+1}+2a_n . For n = 8 n=8 we have a 10 = 6 a 9 + 2 a 8 a_{10}=6a_9+2a_8 so a 10 2 a 8 2 a 9 = 3 \frac{a_{10}-2a_8}{2a_9}=3 .

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher Thankyou very much sir...

Puneet Pinku - 5 years, 2 months ago
Vishnu Bhagyanath
Mar 21, 2016

From the equation, product of roots is 2 -2 a 10 2 ( a 8 ) 2 ( a 9 ) = ( α 10 β 10 ) ( α β ) ( α 8 β 8 ) 2 × ( α 9 β 9 ) \frac{a_{10} - 2(a_8)}{2(a_9)} = \frac{(\alpha ^{10} - \beta ^{10}) - (-\alpha\beta)(\alpha ^8- \beta ^8)}{2 \times (\alpha ^9 - \beta ^9)} Opening the bracket and taking common terms, α 9 ( α + β ) β 9 ( α + β ) 2 × ( α 9 β 9 ) \frac{\alpha ^9(\alpha+\beta) - \beta^9(\alpha + \beta) }{2 \times (\alpha ^9 - \beta ^9)} α + β 2 \frac{\alpha + \beta}{2} From the equation, sum of roots is 6 6 . Therefore the answer is 3 3

Whoa!!!!Good observation......changed my thinking about this question.Upvoted!!

Mohit Gupta - 5 years, 2 months ago

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How did you solve it??

Puneet Pinku - 5 years, 2 months ago

from which books you get such nice questions.. please tell men few names

Deepansh Jindal - 5 years, 2 months ago

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This question is from JEE Advanced 2015 if I'm not mistaken.

Vishnu Bhagyanath - 5 years, 2 months ago

Coincidentally, that's the same way I solved the question !

Aditya Sky - 5 years, 2 months ago
Sam Bealing
Apr 14, 2016

Let a n = α n + β n a_n={\alpha}^n+{\beta}^n . From the equation we get that α + β = a 1 = 6 , α β = 2 \alpha+\beta=a_1=6,{\alpha}{\beta}=-2 using vieta's formula.

6 a n 1 = ( α + β ) ( α n 1 + β n 1 ) = α n + β n + α β ( α n 2 + β n 2 ) ) = a n 2 a n 2 6 a_{n-1}=(\alpha+\beta) ({\alpha}^{n-1}+{\beta}^{n-1})={\alpha}^n+{\beta}^n+ {\alpha}{\beta}({\alpha}^{n-2}+{\beta}^{n-2}))=a_n-2a_{n-2}

So 6 a n 1 = a n 2 a n 2 6 a 9 = a 10 2 a 8 6 a_{n-1}=a_n-2 a_{n-2} \Rightarrow 6 a_9=a_{10}-2a_8

a 10 2 a 8 2 a 9 = 6 a 9 2 a 9 = 3 \frac{a_{10}-2 a_{8}}{2 a_9}=\frac{6 a_9}{2 a_9}=3

Moderator note:

I think you misread the question. It is a n = α n β n a_n = \alpha^n - \beta^n .

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