Knights vs. Knaves

Logic Level 2

Knights always tell the truth and Knaves always lie.

In a group of six people, the following statements are made:

  • Alice says, "None of us are Knights."
  • Bob says, "Exactly two of us are Knights."
  • Cathy says, "At least three of us are Knights."
  • Dave says, "At most three of us are Knights."
  • Evelyn says, "Exactly five of us are Knights."
  • Frank says, "Exactly one of us is a Knight."

How many Knights are there?

0 1 2 3 4 5

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13 solutions

Andrew Ellinor
Sep 22, 2015

Cathy says there are at most 3 Knights, while Dave says there are at most 3 Knights. Clearly, at least one of these two people is telling the truth. Let's take a look at the cases:

  • There are less than 3 Knights. Then, Dave is a Knight. Since Alice, Evelyn, and Frank claimed there were exactly 0, 2, and 1 Knights respectively, exactly one of them must be a Knight. This makes 2 Knights (the truth-teller and Dave), so there are 2 Knights: Bob and Dave.

  • There are exactly 3 Knights. Then, Cathy and Dave are Knights. However, the third Knight would have to have said there were exactly 3 Knights, but no one did, so this is impossible.

  • There are more than 3 Knights. Then, Cathy is a Knight. But only one of Alice/Bob/Evelyn/Frank could be telling the truth, so there are at most 2 Knights, thus causing a contradiction.

Hence, the only possibility is that there are 2 Knights: Bob and Dave.

You mean Cathy says there are at least 3 Knights.

Andy Wong - 5 years, 8 months ago

I might becwring, but could it nit be possible that there is just one knigth ( the last one). I think it is compatible with the negation of the other formulas.

Andreas Zapata - 5 years, 8 months ago

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If Frank was telling the truth that exactly 1 of them was a Knight, then Dave would also be telling the truth that at most 3 were Knights.

Andy Luce - 5 years, 8 months ago

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frank says at most 3 which mean he is saying that there may be 1 or 2 or 3 knights. according to him there can be 3 knights which is wrong. if you separate this then frank has 3 statements.

Pankaj Kumar - 4 years, 8 months ago

I thought the reverse way from your solution, but the results stayed the same. I watched there are 4 different "exactly" statements, which only one could be true among them. Therefore I assumed there are at least 3 knaves. It left us with at most 3 knights (which Dave had said). And then I thought that Dave and Cathy may have said the truth both. But since Bob, the "unsuspected" person, said there are only 2 knights, then Dave and Cathy could not be correct both. I concluded that Bob and Dave told the truth.

Henny Lim - 5 years, 8 months ago

Bob and Dave..!!😄

PUSHPESH KUMAR - 5 years, 8 months ago

I forogt that knights are the ones telling the truth so i said there were 4 knights meaning four liars XP

Gal Hillel - 5 years, 8 months ago

How do you prove Dave is telling the truth

Jeremiah Zonio - 4 years, 11 months ago

What if boath cathy and Dave or wrong

సంపత్ రెడ్డి - 4 years, 10 months ago

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Both Cathy and Dave can't be simultaneously wrong, because between them they cover all possibilities: There must be either 3 or fewer or 3 or more; there are no other options..

Don Weingarten - 2 years, 4 months ago

The way I see it, all you really have to do is rule out the people who have a potential possibility of lying and you're left with Bob and Dave. Problem solved.

Nick Capobianco - 4 years, 6 months ago

I'm the only one who is striggling with his Answer

Priti Gupta - 4 years, 5 months ago

I find that it is not true that Bob and Dave are knights. Semantically, Dave isn't lying, but he also isn't telling the truth. Because at most, there are NOT three knights –– there could only be two. And therefore the statement is false.

Leaving us with Frank, the only one telling the truth.

Hugh Rennie - 3 years, 4 months ago

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The semantics led me to think that it should only be Frank as well, is this to imply knights may use “white lies”?

Patrick McGrath - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Not according to the rule: “knights always tell the truth”

Hugh Rennie - 1 year, 9 months ago

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@Hugh Rennie Semantically, if Dave used the phrase at most, then as long as the actual number turned out to be something less than or equal to what he stated, he's telling the truth. By at most, he's using the OR OPERATORS, AND NOT AND OPERATORS. Here, he's basically saying, "There is / are 0 OR 1 OR 2 OR 3 Knight(s)".

Saya Suka - 4 months, 1 week ago

Why are the statements that there are at most 3 Knights and there are at least 3 Knights mutually exclusive? There could be exactly 3 Knights and both would be right.

Don Weingarten - 1 year, 8 months ago

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You are right, the two statements are NOT mutually exclusive. They have a common point at 3 Knights.

Saya Suka - 4 months, 1 week ago

It should Be only One And That Is Frank... How Could you come up with Two If their answer is not accurately said... At least and atmost 3 It Shall Be accepted to be 2?? it's only 1 and that is Frank

Marvin Avila - 5 years, 8 months ago

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Whether the answer is 1 or 2, Dave is telling the truth. He's basically saying, "There is / are 0 OR 1 OR 2 OR 3 Knight(s)". It's or, not and. For 00000......00000001, the truth value for OR is 1.

Saya Suka - 4 months, 1 week ago

Why can't Cathy and Evelyn be the only 2 knights?

Dhruv Anand - 5 years, 8 months ago

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Because Evelyn said that there were exactly 5 knights, it would mean that there would be 3 other knights alongside them, since all the other statements contradict Cathy and Evelyn's, and Knights only tell the truth, either the other 3 knights are lying or Cathy and Evelyn are lying, according to the rule's of the post it is much easier to suggest that Cathy and Evely were lying.

Samuel Lawrence - 5 years, 8 months ago
Mikal Olsen
Sep 23, 2015

Just a little semantic to be sorted out, you never explicitly stated that all the people in the group were either knights or knaves, so, it could be argued that some of them are not knights but are still telling the truth.

Hmmmmmm......

Half-god Dragon - 2 years, 7 months ago

Alice is obviously not a Knight because if she was it would be a paradox.

Bob, Eve and Frank all claim there to be an exact number, so 2 are liars. Eve is lying because if she was telling the truth then all 3 would be telling the truth, which can't happen.

We know that there's at most 3 Knights. We know that Cathy is lying because that means either Frank or Bob are right, but since they all claim there are less than 3 knights they contradict Cathy, meaning she's lying.

We now know for 100% sure that Dave is telling the truth.

This is where it gets a little tricky. Bob can't be lying, because if he was that would mean that Frank is lying. However that leaves Dave as the only Knight, which means that Frank is right, which causes a paradox. Therefore Bob is telling the truth and Frank must be lying.

2 Knights, Bob and Dave

I'm totally agree with you..

Shubh Haldkar - 4 years, 4 months ago
John Himmer
Mar 7, 2017

I'm not a fan of the wording. What does "At most, three of us are Knights" mean? It should be "Three or less of us are Knights." Here's why: Suppose Frank is a Knight. Then at most there is one Knight, so Dave's statement is incorrect. Then A-E are all telling lies, thus are Knaves, and Frank's statement is true, and consistent with him being a Knight.

If Dave said "Three or less of us are Knights" then Frank cannot be a Knight, as the problem has as the solution.

Agreed.

Suppose I was giving evidence in a criminal trial, having sworn an oath to tell the truth, and I answered "At most 100 times" in response to a question from the prosecution asking me on how many occasions did I witness the defendant picking the pockets of passers by. If, in fact, I had witnessed it exactly once, is my sworn testimony the 'truth'?

Even if I were to rephrase my response as "100 times or fewer", would it be the 'truth', knowing that it was, in fact, exactly once?

Perhaps 'truth' is a problematic term in puzzles of logic.

Please upvote John's comment!

Drew Blanks - 3 years, 9 months ago

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I totally agree.

Raluca Popan - 2 years, 1 month ago

Your sworn testimony is the truth. Other people (judge / juries) stupidity isn't your problem in the first place.

Saya Suka - 4 months ago

LOL, nice.

Michael Ghilarducci - 3 years, 6 months ago
Celine Collins
Apr 16, 2017

Alice - "None of us are Knights." Obviously this cannot be true because if it were true, then she would be a knight, meaning that her claim would have to be Exactly one of us is a Knight.

Bob - "Exactly two of us are Knights."
This cannot be determined yet.

Cathy - "At least three of us are Knights This cannot be determined either.

Dave - "At most three of us are Knights." This cannot be determined either.

Evelyn - "Exactly five of us are Knights." Again, this cannot be determined yet.

Frank - "Exactly one of us is a Knight."
If this one is indeed true, then both he and Dave would be correct since Dave is claiming that there are less than three Knights present. Since both claims would be true, there would in fact be two Knights present, meaning Frank is lying.

At this point, Bob, Cathy, Dave, and Evelyn remain.

Since there are only four remaining who can be Knights, Evelyn must be lying since her claim is that there are exactly five present.

Now, there are only the three of them left: Bob, Cathy, and Dave. Bob is claiming that there are only two Knights. Cathy claims that there are three. Since both of these are less than or equal to three Knights, Dave's claim must be true, automatically making him a Knight.

However, since Cathy is claiming that there are at least three Knights, she is automatically counting Bob out if she were telling the truth because Bob states that there are in fact only two Knights present. Therefore, Cathy must be lying.

This leaves Bob and Dave. Both of their claims are truthful, proving them to be the two Knights present in the group of six.

Great explanation!

Jay Melgar - 1 year, 11 months ago
Andrew Chen
Jul 21, 2016

The above graph helps visualize the solution. Each vertex represents one of the six people in the group. Verticies are connected with an edge if their statements are compatible i.e. both statements can be true at the same time. E.g. Dave's statement is compatible with Cathy's as there could be three knights exactly.

Since the graph is connected , there exists at least two knights.

However, a quick inspection of the graph reveals that the largest complete subgraph has two verticies (K2). This means that at most, two nodes from the graph are compatible with each other, or at most two people are knights. If there were three or more knights, there would be a triangle shaped cycle in the graph but there isn't...

So... there are two knights.

Chris White
Sep 23, 2015

Alice, Evelyn and Frank are Knaves since their statements can't be true in any situation leaving 3 left that could be knights, it's obvious that either Cathy or Dave is a Knight meaning there is at least one Knight, but Cathy says there must be three meaning Bob would be a Knight but if Bob is a Knight only two can be Knights meaning Cathy is a Knave thus making Dave a Knight by default and since Bob does not contradict Dave they are both the only Knights available.

Gary Scarr
Oct 22, 2017

Ifill out the following grid which has the claims of each person in each row and the Truth or Falsness of that claim if the actual number is the one at the top of the column. The only column that has the number of T's that matches the actual is 2. Hence there are 2 Knights. We don't need to know who they are: -

Allen Yuan
Aug 24, 2016

My thought process:

Alice is not a Knight because the statement "none of us are knights" contradicts her being a knight, so I only thought about the other cases.

I noticed that the 2 knight, 5 knight, and 1 knight scenarios are mutually exclusive (bob, evelyn, frank respectively). Therefore out of the 3 of them there is at most 1 knight.

Only one of Cathy and Dave will back up any of those scenarios, therefore boosting the potential knight count to 2. Cathy and Dave both back the 3 knight scenario but not any other person, therefore at most there are only 2 knights.

I was wondering if this thought process is the quickest, or if there are better ways of grouping/eliminating possibilities.

Saya Suka
Feb 6, 2021

Alice says, "None of us are Knights."
Bob says, "Exactly two of us are Knights."
Cathy says, "At least three of us are Knights."
Dave says, "At most three of us are Knights."
Evelyn says, "Exactly five of us are Knights."
Frank says, "Exactly one of us is a Knight."




There are 6 statements made between Alice, Bob, Cathy, Dave, Evelyn and Frank, 4 in direct equalities and 2 inequalities. Among the group of the 4 using equalities, there should be AT MOST only one Knight there, while for the rest who used inequalities, there should be AT LEAST one Knight there though they might be both telling the truth only if the number of Knights equal 3. But if there really were 3 Knights, then they need an equality which would have said exactly that as the last Knight around the table.

Rechecking, we only have A = 0, B = 2, C ≥ 3, D ≤ 3, E = 5 & F = 1, and ? = 3 is nowhere to be found. Thus, only one of the inequalities told the truth (and that's Dave) but there are those who claimed of 1 or 2 Knight(s) from equalities, too. Since the number spoken have to take the speaker's self into account in addition to the established facts of AT LEAST one from the inequality group, then the real Knights must be D ≤ 3 & B = 2, an assortment of 2 person.

If Alice was telling the truth, that would make her a knight, contradicting her own statement. Therefore she is a knave, and we can eliminate her.

If Bob was a knight, he and Cathy/Dave/Evelyn or Frank are knights. However Cathy states there are 3 or more knights, not exactly 2. Evelyn says exactly 5 and Frank says exactly 1, so they are not knights. However, Dave says at most 3 of them are knights, meaning there could be 1, 2 or 3. This is the only statement that fits with Bob stating there are 2 knights, so they are both telling the truth. So Bob and Dave are the 2 knights.

Half-god Dragon
Oct 25, 2018

Alice can't be right, for her statement would contradict itself. Evelyn can't be right either, for there are at least 3 "exactly" statements. Cathy can't be right, for hers would cancel out Bob's statement and make hers untrue. Neither Bob's nor Dave's statements contradict each other or themselves, so they are the two Knights.

Matthias Matthias
Sep 26, 2015

Case 1: None of us are knights: Contradiction, knaves lie

Case 2:Exactly two of us our knights: If true then, No contradiction

Alice:Lie-Knave

Bob: Truth-Knight

Cathy:Lie- Knave

Dave: Truth- Knight

Evelyn: Lie knave

Frank:Lie-knave

Case 3:"At least three of us are Knights." If true leads to contradictory solution of only two knights possible Alice:Lie-Knave

Bob: Lie-Knave

Cathy:True- Knight

Dave: Truth/lie- Knight if Evelyn is false

Evelyn: Truth/lie- knight is Dave is false

Frank:Lie-knave

Case 4 "At most three of us are Knights." If true leads to contradiction

Alice:Lie-Knave

Bob: Lie-Knave

Cathy:Lie- knave

Dave: Truth- Knight

Evelyn:Lie knave

Frank:Lie-knave

Case 5:Exactly five of us are Knights If true: leads to contradiction as others indicate different values simultaneously

Case 6:Exactly one of us is a Knight If true: contradiction found in Dave's statement being true.

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