Like Modulo, Only For pi

Algebra Level 5

Let R ( a , b ) R(a,b) be defined over the positive real numbers as the remainder when a a is divided by b b ; that is, if a = q b + r a = qb+r where q q is an integer and 0 r < b 0 \le r < b , then R ( a , b ) = r R(a,b) = r . For example, R ( 2 2 , 2 ) = 0 R(2 \sqrt{2}, \sqrt{2}) = 0 because 2 2 2 = 2 \frac{2 \sqrt{2}}{\sqrt{2}} = 2 which has no remainder, while R ( 2 , 2 ) = 2 2 R(2, \sqrt{2}) = 2 - \sqrt{2} because 2 2 = 1 + 2 2 2 \frac{2}{\sqrt{2}} = 1 + \frac{2 - \sqrt{2}}{\sqrt{2}} .

Let f ( x ) = x 2 8 x + 17 f(x) = x^2 - 8x + 17 . How many real values of x x satisfy R ( f ( x ) , x ) = 0 R(f(x), x) = 0 over the interval 1 x 2015 1 \le x \le 2015 ?


The answer is 2017.

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3 solutions

Brandon Monsen
Nov 16, 2015

In order for R ( f ( x ) , x ) = 0 , f ( x ) x R(f(x),x)=0, \frac{f(x)}{x} has to be an integer.

We know that f ( x ) > 0 f(x)>0 for x R x \in \mathbb{R} , and since x x will be positive in our domain, f ( x ) x \frac{f(x)}{x} will be positive over our entire domain.

If we define g ( x ) = f ( x ) x g(x)=\frac{f(x)}{x} , we get:

g ( x ) = x 8 + 17 x g(x)=x-8+\frac{17}{x}

Looking at g ( x ) g(x) , we can tell that it is continuous over our interval, and will decrease to some minimum value and then increase from there.

Plugging in some values for g ( x ) g(x) , we get

g ( 1 ) = 10 g ( 4 ) = 1 4 g ( 2015 ) = 2007 + 17 2015 g(1)=10\\ g(4)=\frac{1}{4}\\ g(2015)=2007+\frac{17}{2015}

From all of the above information, we know that over the interval 1 x 2015 1 \leq x \leq 2015 , g ( x ) g(x) will decrease from 10 10 to some value 0 < g ( a ) < 1 0<g(a)<1 , thus passing through all the integers between 10 10 and 1 1 . It will also increase from some value 0 < g ( a ) < 1 0<g(a)<1 to g ( 2015 ) = 2007 + 17 2015 g(2015)=2007+\frac{17}{2015} , thus passing through all the integers from 1 1 to 2007 2007 .

This means g ( x ) g(x) will pass through 10 + 2007 = 2017 10+2007=2017 integers total, and thus our answer is:

2017 \boxed{2017}

Nice problem.

To generalize divisibility, we shouldn't require a and b to be positive. It is sufficient for b b to be non-zero.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 6 months ago

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If you are going to allow b b to be negative, are you going to specify that 0 r < b 0 \le r < |b| , or will r r be negative when b b is negative? There is a natural extension of division for a < 0 a < 0 , but I am not so sure for b < 0 b < 0 .

Mark Hennings - 5 years, 6 months ago

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Yes, the remainder is defined as 0 r < b 0 \leq r < || b || , where || \cdot || is the norm function. The Division Algorithm can be generalized to Euclidean domain.
For the real numbers, the norm function is given by the absolute value, hence b |b| .
For the complex numbers, the norm function is given by the absolute value x + i y = x 2 + y 2 |x + iy | = \sqrt{ x^2 + y^2} .
For polynomials, the norm function is given by the degree of the polynomial, which is why we have deg r < deg b \deg r < \deg b .


Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 6 months ago

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@Calvin Lin So actually the remainder should satisfy r < b \Vert r\Vert < \Vert b \Vert , if you are going to use Euclidean norm as the distance function.

Actually this is all rather artificial; requiring that the quotient be an integer is nothing to do with Euclidean domains. Any field is a Euclidean domain since we can write x = q y + r x = qy + r , with r = 0 r=0 , for any real x , y x,y where y y is nonzero!

Mark Hennings - 5 years, 6 months ago
Otto Bretscher
Nov 16, 2015

Entertaining problem!

We want x 2 8 x + 17 x \frac{x^2-8x+17}{x} to be an integer, or, equivalently, we want f ( x ) = x + 17 x f(x)=x+\frac{17}{x} to be an integer. The function f ( x ) f(x) is decreasing for 1 x 17 1\leq x\leq \sqrt{17} and then increasing, with f ( 17 ) 8.25 f(\sqrt{17})\approx 8.25 . The function attains the 10 integer values f ( 1 ) = 18 f(1)=18 to 9 on the way down and then the 2007 integer values 9 to 2015 on the way up, for a total of 2017 \boxed{2017} .

Moderator note:

Good clear explanation. We are essentially asking for the number of values of the form \frac{ (8+n) \pm \sqrt{ (8+n)^2 - 4 \times 17 } { 2} to be between 1 and 2015.

Mark Hennings
Nov 22, 2015

We want x 2 8 x + 17 x = n x x^2 - 8x + 17x = nx for some positive integer n n The roots of x 2 ( n + 8 ) x + 17 = 0 x^2 - (n+8)x + 17 = 0 are x ± = 1 2 ( n + 8 ± ( n + 8 ) 2 68 ) , x_\pm \; =\; \tfrac12\left(n+8 \pm \sqrt{(n+8)^2 - 68}\right) \;, Elementary algebra shows that x 1 x_- \ge 1 provided that n 10 n \le 10 , and that x + 2015 x_+ \le 2015 provided that n 2017 n \le 2017 . Thus there are 10 + 2007 = 2017 10+2007 = 2017 solutions to the problem.

same method.you must mention why n≥1, show by discriminant test.

Aareyan Manzoor - 5 years, 6 months ago

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