Looks complex, right?

Algebra Level 3

p , q , r , s p,q,r,s are the 4 roots of the equation

x 4 a x 3 + a x 2 + b x + c = 0. x^4 - ax^3 +ax^2 + bx +c =0.

What is the minimum possible value of p 2 + q 2 + r 2 + s 2 ? p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2?

Note:

  • p , q , r , s p,q,r,s are not necessarily real.
  • a , b , c a,b,c are real coefficients.


The answer is -1.

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4 solutions

X X
Dec 3, 2018

p + q + r + s = a p+q+r+s=a

p q + p r + p s + q r + q s + r s = a pq+pr+ps+qr+qs+rs=a

p 2 + q 2 + r 2 + s 2 = ( p + q + r + s ) 2 2 ( p q + p r + p s + q r + q s + r s ) = a 2 2 a = ( a 1 ) 2 1 p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2=(p+q+r+s)^2-2(pq+pr+ps+qr+qs+rs)=a^2-2a=(a-1)^2-1

Hence the minimum is 1 -1 (happens when a = 1 a=1 )

You have shown that 1 -1 is a lower bound. However, in order for it to truly be a minimum, we have to show that it can be achieved. Does such p , q , r , s p, q, r, s exist for a = 1 a = 1 ?

Calvin Lin Staff - 2 years, 6 months ago

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I don't think there is a need of prooving the existance. If a = 1 a=1 , any values of b b or c c doesn't matter, then p 2 + q 2 + r 2 + s 2 = 1 p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2=-1

Or we can just put a = 1 , b = 0 , c = 0 a=1,b=0,c=0 and get the equation x 4 x 3 + x 2 = 0 x^4-x^3+x^2=0 to make sure.

X X - 2 years, 6 months ago

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For completeness, in the example you suggest, the roots are 0 , 0 , ( 1 + 3 ) / 2 , ( 1 3 ) / 2 0, 0, (1 + \sqrt{3})/2, (1 - \sqrt{3})/2 giving a sum of squares of 0 + 0 + ( 1 + 3 ) / 2 + ( 1 3 ) / 2 = 1 0 + 0 + (-1 + \sqrt{3})/2 + (-1 - \sqrt{3})/2 = -1 as required

Richard Farrer - 2 years, 6 months ago

Another good example is a = 1 a = 1 , b = 1 b= -1 , and c = 0 c = 0 . In that case, the polynomial factors nicely. 0 = x 4 x 3 + x 2 x = x ( x 3 x 2 + x 1 ) = x ( x 1 ) ( x 2 + 1 ) = x ( x 1 ) ( x i ) ( x + i ) \begin{aligned} 0 &= x^4 - x^3 + x^2 - x \\ &= x(x^3 - x^2 + x - 1) \\ &= x(x -1)(x^2 + 1) \\ &= x(x-1)(x-i)(x+i) \end{aligned}

So the four roots are 0 , 1 , i , i 0, 1, i, -i and the sum of their squares is 0 + 1 1 1 = 1 0 + 1 -1 -1 = -1 .

Matthew Feig - 2 years, 6 months ago

I think you could reason that by the fundamental theorem of algebra, the four roots exist for a = 1 as the degree of the polynomial is 4.

Zac Mann - 2 years, 6 months ago

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Right, that's the missing step/argument in showing that the lower bound can be achieved.

I wasn't saying that it is "hard to do". I was just saying that "it has to be stated".

Calvin Lin Staff - 2 years, 6 months ago

There is nothing left to prove: 4 roots always exist and it was proven the requested sum equals 1 -1 when a = 1 a=1

Nicola Gabbia - 2 years, 3 months ago

Why is the sum of the roots equal to a?

p m - 2 years, 6 months ago

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Hint: ( x p ) ( x q ) ( x r ) ( x s ) = 0 = x 4 a x 3 + a x 2 + b x + c (x-p)(x-q)(x-r)(x-s)=0=x^4-ax^3+ax^2+bx+c

X X - 2 years, 6 months ago

Please show how to solve using Arithmetic mean >= Geometric mean

Arnab Khanra - 2 years, 6 months ago

How is a sum of squares negative???

Pablo Minaudier - 2 years, 5 months ago

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Aaaaah complex numbers....

But it's weird to introduce them in a problem of minimum value (since "<" is undefined)

Pablo Minaudier - 2 years, 5 months ago

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It can be shown that p 2 + q 2 + r 2 + s 2 p^2 + q^2 + r^2 + s^2 is always real (under the conditions of the problem), so we can talk about the minimum of this value, even though p , q , r , s p, q, r, s might be complex.

Calvin Lin Staff - 2 years, 5 months ago

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@Calvin Lin And also because a^2-2a is a real function. So it can have a minima .

Arghyadip Ojha - 2 years, 5 months ago

@Calvin Lin The sum of the squares is a ( a 2 ) a(a-2) and a a is real: the proof is all there

Nicola Gabbia - 2 years, 3 months ago

It worth noting that the last identity also shows that the sum of squares is always real, even if the roots of the polynomial are allowed to be complex, and therefore the problem of minimizing it makes sense. A priori a function of complex number is complex as well, so minimizing it is ill-defined.

Ab B - 2 years, 5 months ago

I don't see how the phrase "minimum possible value" precludes absolute value. Are absolute values impossible?

nunya beezwax - 2 years, 5 months ago

You have "ps" instead of "rs" in both sums

Inbar Shulman - 2 years, 1 month ago

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I had posted this for almost 5 months, and finally someone found this mistake! Thanks for telling me this error.

X X - 2 years, 1 month ago
Peter Macgregor
Dec 10, 2018

You can use Newton's remarkable identities to show that the sum of the squares of the roots of this polynomial equation is

S = a 2 2 a S=a^2-2a

Completing the square we can write this as

S = a ( a 2 ) S=a(a-2)

S is a quadratic in a with zeros at a = 0 and a = 2. The minimum occurs half way between these roots, when a = 1. This gives the minimum value of S as 1 ( 1 2 ) = 1 1(1-2)= -1

I like the way the values of b and c are not relevant and do not need to feature in the solution!

Vinod Kumar
Dec 10, 2018

Assume polynomial =(x-p)(x-q)(x-r)(x-s) and knowing for quartic polynomial that the sum of square of roots are given by (S1)^2-(2*S2), where S1 and S2 are coefficient of x^3 and x^2, respectively.

Therefore, for given polynomial, we write:

p^2+q^2+r^2+s^2 = a^2-2a,

Minimizing RHS, get a=1 and minimum value of RHS = -1

Answer= -1

Couldn't a, b and c all be equal to zero making all The roots zero aswell?

ossian arn - 2 years, 5 months ago
Jesse Nieminen
Dec 12, 2018

Vieta's formulas tell us that p + q + r + s = ( a ) = a a n d p q + p r + p s + q r + q s + r s = a . p + q + r + s = -(-a) = a \quad \mathrm{and} \quad pq + pr + ps + qr + qs + rs = a. Newton's identities tell us that p 2 + q 2 + r 2 + s 2 = ( p + q + r + s ) ( p + q + r + s ) 2 ( p q + p r + p s + q r + q s + r s ) = a 2 2 a . p^2 + q^2 + r^2 + s^2 = (p + q + r + s)(p + q + r + s) - 2(pq + pr + ps + qr + qs + rs) = a^2 - 2a. Trivial inequality tells us that a 2 2 a = a 2 2 a + 1 1 = ( a 1 ) 2 1 1 , a^2 - 2a = a^2 - 2a + 1 - 1 = (a - 1)^2 - 1 \geq -1, with equality at a = 1 a = 1 .

If a = 1 a = 1 with b b and c c arbitrary, the fundamental theorem of algebra tells us that p , q , r , s p, q, r, s exist.

Hence, the minimum value of p 2 + q 2 + r 2 + s 2 p^2 + q^2 + r^2 + s^2 is 1 \boxed{-1} .

P 1 = b a = a P_{1} = \frac{-b}{a} = a

P 2 = a P 1 2 c a = a 2 2 a \Rightarrow P_{2} = a\cdot P_{1} - 2\cdot \frac{c}{a} = a^{2} - 2a

Minimum occurs at P 2 = 0 P_{2}’ = 0

2 a 2 = 0 a = 1 \Rightarrow 2a - 2 = 0 \Rightarrow a = 1

Substituting a = 1 a = 1 back into P 2 P_{2} gives P 2 = 1 P_{2} = -1

\Rightarrow minimum of p 2 + q 2 + r 2 + s 2 = 1 p^{2} + q^{2} + r^{2} + s^{2} = \boxed{-1}

William Allen - 2 years, 5 months ago

The equation x^4 -x^3+x^2-x=0 has 4 roots 0, 1, i, -i and satisfies the required conditions.

jebrel habeb - 1 year, 4 months ago

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