Lovely Dynamics of Friction in Semicircle

A rough semicircle of equation x 2 + y 2 = 1 , y 0 \large x^{2}+y^{2}=1,y≤0 is fixed at coordinate R ( 0 , 1 ) R(0, -1) .
The Blue block is released from rest ,from A ( 1 , 0 ) A(1, 0)
Find the time for which the block stops for the first time.

Details and Assumptions

  1. Friction coefficient of semicircle μ = 0.5 \textcolor{#20A900}{\mu=0.5} .
  2. Mass of blue block M = 1 \textcolor{#3D99F6}{M=1} .
  3. g = 10 g=10 ,assume uniform in every moment.
  4. Consider everything in SI units.

This problem is dedicated to my respected teacher Karan Chatrath

The problem is original.


The answer is 1.02.

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3 solutions

Karan Chatrath
Jul 2, 2020

Let the x x and y y coordinates of the particle be:

x = sin θ x ˙ = cos θ θ ˙ x ¨ = cos θ θ ¨ θ ˙ 2 sin θ x = \sin{\theta} \implies \dot{x} = \cos{\theta} \dot{\theta} \implies \ddot{x} = \cos{\theta} \ddot{\theta} - \dot{\theta}^2 \sin{\theta} y = cos θ y ˙ = sin θ θ ˙ y ¨ = sin θ θ ¨ + θ ˙ 2 cos θ y = -\cos{\theta} \implies \dot{y} = \sin{\theta} \dot{\theta} \implies \ddot{y} = \sin{\theta} \ddot{\theta} + \dot{\theta}^2\cos{\theta}

Applying Newton's second law along the X and Y directions gives:

m x ¨ = f cos θ N sin θ m \ddot{x} = f \cos{\theta} - N \sin{\theta} m y ¨ = N cos θ + f sin θ m g m \ddot{y} = N \cos{\theta} + f \sin{\theta} -mg f = μ N f = \mu N

Solving for θ ¨ \ddot{\theta} by eliminating N N gives after simplification:

θ ¨ = μ θ ˙ 2 g sin θ + μ g cos θ \ddot{\theta} = \mu \dot{\theta}^2 -g \sin{\theta} + \mu g \cos{\theta} θ ¨ = θ ˙ 2 2 10 sin θ + 5 cos θ \implies \ddot{\theta} = \frac{\dot{\theta}^2}{2} -10 \sin{\theta} + 5\cos{\theta} θ ¨ θ ˙ 2 2 = 5 ( cos θ 2 sin θ ) \implies \ddot{\theta} - \frac{\dot{\theta}^2}{2} = 5\left(\cos{\theta} - 2\sin{\theta}\right)

θ ˙ d θ ˙ d θ θ ˙ 2 2 = 5 ( cos θ 2 sin θ ) \implies \dot{\theta} \frac{d\dot{\theta}}{d\theta} - \frac{\dot{\theta}^2}{2} = 5\left(\cos{\theta} - 2\sin{\theta}\right)

Multiplying both sides by e θ \mathrm{e}^{-\theta} and simplifying:

d d θ ( e θ θ ˙ 2 2 ) = 5 e θ ( cos θ 2 sin θ ) \implies \frac{d}{d\theta}\left(\mathrm{e}^{-\theta}\frac{\dot{\theta}^2}{2} \right) = 5\mathrm{e}^{-\theta}\left(\cos{\theta} - 2\sin{\theta}\right)

When \t = 0 \t = 0 then θ = π / 2 \theta = \pi/2 and θ ˙ = 0 \dot{\theta}=0 . Using these initial conditions, separating the variables and integrating gives:

e θ θ ˙ 2 2 = π / 2 θ 5 e θ ( cos θ 2 sin θ ) d θ \implies \mathrm{e}^{-\theta}\frac{\dot{\theta}^2}{2}= \int_{\pi/2}^{\theta}5\mathrm{e}^{-\theta}\left(\cos{\theta} - 2\sin{\theta}\right) \ d\theta e θ θ ˙ 2 2 = 5 ( e θ ( 3 sin ( θ ) + cos ( θ ) ) 2 3 e π 2 2 ) \implies \mathrm{e}^{-\theta}\frac{\dot{\theta}^2}{2} = 5\left(\dfrac{\mathrm{e}^{-{\theta}}\left(3\sin\left({\theta}\right)+\cos\left({\theta}\right)\right)}{2}-\dfrac{3\mathrm{e}^{-\frac{{\pi}}{2}}}{2}\right) θ ˙ = 5 ( 3 sin ( θ ) + cos ( θ ) 3 e π 2 + θ ) \dot{\theta} = -\sqrt{5\left(3\sin\left({\theta}\right)+\cos\left({\theta}\right)-3\mathrm{e}^{-\frac{{\pi}}{2}+\theta}\right)}

The minus sign is introduced since as t t increases, θ \theta decreases. By plotting the RHS of the above equation, one can easily see that it becomes zero at θ = θ o 0.151428 r a d \theta=\theta_o \approx -0.151428 \ \mathrm{rad}

Now, separating variables and integrating gives:

T = θ o π / 2 d θ 5 ( 3 sin ( θ ) + cos ( θ ) 3 e π 2 + θ ) 1.02 s \boxed{T=\int_{\theta_o}^{\pi/2}\frac{d\theta}{ \sqrt{5\left(3\sin\left({\theta}\right)+\cos\left({\theta}\right)-3\mathrm{e}^{-\frac{{\pi}}{2}+\theta}\right)}} \approx 1.02 \ s}

I have used the diagram that you shared but I have not resolved the forces along the tangential and normal directions. FYI

Karan Chatrath - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

@Karan Chatrath Thanks and very impressive solution.

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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Welcome. Nice problem

Karan Chatrath - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@Karan Chatrath sir is it necessary that the block comes for forever rest at ( 0 , 1 ) (0, -1)
Can't the block comes at forever rest at some θ \theta angle ?
Please share your views
Thanks in advance


A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

Hey bro, why'd you delete the new algebra problem?

Krishna Karthik - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Krishna Karthik I got the solution. And it was not a hard problem.
And also a not original problem.
.I always try my best to post, tricky, hard, coneptual, original problems.
BTW bro when you are going to make notes on Simpson 1/3 rd 3/8, rules.
I am eagerly waiting.
Thanks in advance.

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Alright, let's do that today. See you!

Krishna Karthik - 11 months, 1 week ago

To answer your question: Whether the block comes to rest at ( 0 , 1 ) (0,-1) depends on the friction coefficient. For example, if the friction coefficient is 0.5, then the block comes to rest at θ 0 \theta \ne 0

If you reduce the friction value to say 0.02, the block exhibits damped oscillations until it eventually settles very close to θ = 0 \theta = 0 .

Karan Chatrath - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@Karan Chatrath sir I think for this problem it finally comes to rest at -10 degrees.
BTW thanks for this interesting result.

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago
Krishna Karthik
Jul 6, 2020

Hey mate, I just solved your problem. Nice one! Loved it😁👍🏽 There are already two pretty comprehensive solutions out there. I used the computational approach that Steven Chase used. I want to know what method you used @Neeraj Anand Badgujar . Tell me in the comment section.

Firstly, there are 3 forces acting on the object;

The Tangential Gravitational Force

Where θ \theta is the angle of the slope/tangent line to the circle, the force acting tangentially to the circle (due to gravity) is:

F g t = m g sin ( θ ) \displaystyle \bold{F}_{gt} = mg \sin(\theta)

The value of θ \theta can be given by finding tan 1 ( ) \tan ^{-1} () of the slope, given by tan 1 ( x 1 x 2 ) \displaystyle \tan^{-1} \left(\frac{x}{\sqrt{1-x^2}} \right)

The Normal Force

The normal force acting down a ramp dependent on the cosine of the ramp angle. N = m g cos ( θ ) + m v 2 R \displaystyle \bold{N} = mg \cos(\theta) +\frac{m v^2}{R}

The Frictional Force

The frictional force is F f r i c t i o n = μ N \bold{F}_{friction} = \mu N , and is positive or negative depending on the velocity of the object.

Once you carry out these computations and numerically integrate the acceleration, you can get the result. Here's my code:

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import math


time = 0
deltaT = 10**-6 #simulation accuracy


#constants and initial conditions
alpha = 3.1415926/2

x = 1
y = 0

xDot = 0
yDot = 0

m = 1
g = 10

mu = 0.5

velocity = 0



while velocity <= 0:  #simulate till the object comes to stop
    if x == 1:  #handling of exception (division by zero)
        theta = alpha
    else:
        theta = math.atan(x/math.sqrt(1-x**2))


    Fgt = -m*g*math.sin(theta)  #gravity down ramp
    normalForce = m*g*math.cos(theta) + m*(velocity**2) #normal force on ramp


    #friction force is dependent on velocity direction
    if xDot < 0:
        frictionForce = mu*normalForce
    else:
        frictionForce = -mu*normalForce


    totalTangentialForce = Fgt + frictionForce #total force down ramp


    #numerical integration
    acceleration = totalTangentialForce/m 
    velocity += acceleration*deltaT

    #resolving of velocity components
    xDot = velocity*math.cos(theta)
    yDot = velocity*math.sin(theta)

    #distance/position computation
    x += xDot*deltaT
    y += yDot*deltaT

    #progressing simulation
    time += deltaT

print(time)

@Krishna Karthik I solve analytically and some help with Karan sir.
Thanks for your solution. (Upvoted)

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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Brilliant solution from Chatrath sir, I think. Great!

Krishna Karthik - 11 months, 1 week ago
Steven Chase
Jul 2, 2020

Nice problem. Simulation code is below, with comments. The block takes 1.02 1.02 seconds to come to a stop, and it travels through an angle of 98.7 98.7 degrees

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import math

# Constants

R = 1.0
u = 0.5
M = 1.0
g = 10.0

deg = math.pi/180.0

dt = 10.0**(-6.0)

####################################

t = 0.0
theta = 0.0

S = 0.0       # S is linear distance traveled
Sd = 0.0
Sdd = 0.0

while Sd >= 0.0:  # simulate until block stops

    S = S + Sd*dt       # numerical integration
    Sd = Sd + Sdd*dt

    thetad = Sd/R    # angular speed

    theta = theta + thetad*dt  # cumulative angle traversed

    Fc = M*(Sd**2.0)/R  # centripetal force

    # Fc = N - M*g*math.sin(theta)  

    N = Fc + M*g*math.sin(theta)   # normal force

    F = M*g*math.cos(theta) - u*N  # linear accelerating force

    Sdd = F/M  # linear acceleration along circumference

    t = t + dt

####################################

print dt
print t
print (theta/deg)

#>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
#>>> 
#1e-05
#1.02051
#98.6761041383
#>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
#>>> 
#1e-06
#1.02049700001
#98.6762165773
#>>> 

@Steven Chase sir I am not able to understand the solution (5th and 6th step) of this problem?
Can you help me in explaining?
Thanks in advance
Hope you will reply .

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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You gotta start posting in the notes section to get more people to notice this.

The 5th/6th step involved quotient rule .

Pi Han Goh - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@Pi Han Goh sir I don't think it is quotient rule.
I think x x is replaced by 2 x 2x

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Oh, that.

lim x 0 f ( x ) = lim 2 x 0 f ( 2 x ) \displaystyle \lim_{x\to 0} f(x) = \lim_{2x\to 0} f(2x) . You're just replacing x x with 2 x 2x . That's nothing fallacious about this, as long as you know that 2 x 2x is also continuous at x = 0 x = 0 .

Pi Han Goh - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@Pi Han Goh @Pi Han Goh sir explain the step 5 to 6??

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Instead of repeating what you said, try to elaborate on why you fail to understand a certain step. I already said it's quotient rule, but you said you were referring to some other step. Please try to be more explicit about what you're asking.

Pi Han Goh - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@Pi Han Goh @Pi Han Goh I just want to know that after 5th step how does the 6th step come???

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member I already told you it's quotient rule. If you think I misunderstood what you said, please elaborate more on this.

What you're basically communicating to me is

"Hey, tell me why this happens?"

"Okay, it's because of X"

"No, I mean that."

"Okay, it's because of Y"

"No, I mean the first one"

"Well, I just told you it's X"

"No, I mean the first one"

"What more do you want me to say? It's X for crying out loud!"

Either be more explicit, or I won't bother helping you again.

Pi Han Goh - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@Pi Han Goh @Pi Han Goh ok I got it.
How to make GIF in python ??

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member I don't know. \quad

Pi Han Goh - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@Pi Han Goh @Pi Han Goh what should I learn in python which will help me in future??

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member That depends on what you want to do.

For most, Python is just to do complex calculations.

First start by learning how to differentiate polynomials and matrices on Python. And learn how to automate all the school homework by Python... (At least, that's how I would want to do it)

Pi Han Goh - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

@A Former Brilliant Member Bro how do you come up with all these questions so rapidly? lmao...

Krishna Karthik - 11 months, 1 week ago

@Pi Han Goh Lol such a funny conversation... I'm dying🤣XD

Krishna Karthik - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Krishna Karthik @Krishna Karthik Ya bro because after saying so many times @Pi Han Goh was not understanding, thats why I just said 'I got it's.

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Oh yeah. True. He kept going on about quotient rule when it was actually a trig identity. Fair enough.

Krishna Karthik - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Krishna Karthik @Krishna Karthik bro I think he is in love with quotient rule.
Just joking
See my new problem of algebra
And if possible post the solution
Thanks in advance

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

@A Former Brilliant Member Hey bud, I'm also posting a solution to this problem here. I hope you'll look at it once it's out!

Krishna Karthik - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Krishna Karthik @Krishna Karthik you are welcome bro.

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

I don't think it is the quotient rule. There is no differentiation taking place here. I think that the following identity is used:

tan ( 2 x ) = 2 tan x 1 tan 2 x \tan(2x) = \frac{2\tan{x}}{1-\tan^2{x}}

Karan Chatrath - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath E x a c t l y \textcolor{#3D99F6}{Exactly}

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

@Karan Chatrath @Pi Han Goh sir above @Karan Chatrath sir said that , we are not using quotient rule.

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 2 weeks ago

@Steven Chase what to do after this Thanks in advance

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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Double-check your result for B z B_z . And then you can do any one of the following three things:

1) Integrate B \vec{B} over the given surface
2) Integrate B \vec{B} over some other open surface that has the same boundary curve as the given surface
3) Integrate A \vec{A} over the boundary curve

The second and third procedures are equivalent because of Stoke's theorem

Steven Chase - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Steven Chase I want to use 2) method
Integrating over the boundary is x 2 4 + y 2 1 = 1 \frac{x^{2}}{4}+\frac{y^{2}}{1}=1
Am I right

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member The boundary curve is not at z = 0 z = 0

Steven Chase - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Steven Chase @Steven Chase sir now is it correct x 2 32 9 + y 2 8 9 = 1 \Large \frac{x^{2}}{\frac{32}{9}}+\frac{y^{2}}{\frac{8}{9}}=1
??

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

@Steven Chase @Steven Chase sir next???

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Evaluate the integral over that curve:

A d \int \vec{A} \cdot \vec{d \ell}

Steven Chase - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Steven Chase @Steven Chase But sir what is A \vec{A} in the above integral and how to evalute it?
I know I am disturbing you a lot in this , but please

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member It is the vector magnetic potential that is given in the problem

Steven Chase - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Steven Chase @Steven Chase should I write d l \vec{dl} in polar form or in what?

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member However you like

Steven Chase - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@Steven Chase @Steven Chase am I going right

Please reply
I don't know much about this type of question therefore it is getting hard for me
Hope you will reply.

A Former Brilliant Member - 11 months, 1 week ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member What final result do you get? Also, you can make use of a computational approach if necessary.

Steven Chase - 11 months, 1 week ago

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