Minimizing Coefficients

Algebra Level 4

Given that the roots of the equation x 3 a x 2 + b x 8 = 0 x^3-ax^2+bx-8=0 are all real, and a , b R + a,b\in \mathbb{R^+} , find the minimum possible value of b b .


The answer is 12.

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3 solutions

Krishna Sharma
Dec 13, 2014

With descartes rule we can say all roots are positive

Let the roots be x , y , z x, y, z

x + y + z = a x + y + z = a

x y + y z + z x = b xy + yz + zx = b

x y z = 8 xyz = 8

Applying A.M-G.M

x + y + z 3 x y z 3 \dfrac{x + y + z}{3} \geq \sqrt[3]{xyz}

x + y + z 6 x + y + z \geq 6

a m i n = 6 a_{min} = 6

Now applying A.M -H.M

x + y + z 3 3 x y z x y + y z + z x \dfrac{ x + y + z}{3} \geq \dfrac{3xyz}{xy + yz + zx}

Hence

x y + y z + z x = b m i n = 12 xy + yz + zx = b_{min} =\boxed{ 12}

PS:- just apply G.M -H.M to find 'b'

Good approach.

A slightly more immediate approach is to use cubic discriminants, which tell you that the discriminant has to be non-negative, in order for us to get 3 distinct real roots.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 6 months ago

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May you show that sir?

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 5 months ago

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Excuse me sir, we can easily see that when the polynomial has 3 equal roots equal to 2. The minimum value for b(=12) is achieved.

Can it be true that for a monic polynomial with real coefficients, if the roots are equal, the coefficients are minimum?

Shivam Hinduja - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Shivam Hinduja We can't exactly say minimum but if all the roots are positive then given the value of any one coefficient the minimum or maximum value (if it's valid to ask) of any other coefficient will occur when all the roots are equal. For eg in case of cubic polynomial ( x 3 + a x 2 + b x + c ) (x^3+ax^2+bx+c) , if value of a is given then maximum value of c will exist when the three positive roots are equal. BTW i liked your question & will be interested to dig in more.

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Sanjeet Raria Well, thanks for your answer for sure. But, two questions arise from this situation that what could be the value for b , a maximum or a minimum? Well, as I suppose that could be minimum.

And, If not can we say that at least the maxima or minima must lie in [a,c], considering a monic polynomial.

And can your above answer be proved for negative roots too?

Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shivam Hinduja - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Calvin Lin Sir what is Cubic discriminent ?? how can we use it in this question ? thanks!

Karan Shekhawat - 6 years, 5 months ago
Sanjeet Raria
Dec 19, 2014

It is easy to see that all the roots will be positive. Let the roots be p p , q q and r r . Now by Vieta,

p q + q r + r s = b pq+qr+rs = b

p q r = 8 pqr = 8

Applying A.M-G.M p q + q r + r s 3 ( p q r ) 2 3 \frac{pq+qr+rs}{3} \geq (pqr)^{\frac{2}{3}} b 3 8 2 3 \Rightarrow \frac{b}{3} \geq 8^{\frac{2}{3}} b 12 \Rightarrow b \geq 12 Hence answer is 12 \boxed{12}

S i r \huge{Sir}

U Z - 6 years, 5 months ago

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Whoa...Thank you Megh. Thank you, that is a very special Welcome.

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 5 months ago

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Sir Ji , You deserve it ! Really very warm welcome of you to come back on brilliant.org (our home) to kill question's :) :)

Karan Shekhawat - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Karan Shekhawat Thank you!

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 5 months ago
Michael Bartholic
Jan 15, 2015

After looking at the equation for a while, I realize that it looked remarkable similar to the binomial expansion of (a-b)^3. After realizing this, the next logical step was just to reverse the formula for the expansion of a cubed binomial by taking 3rd root of the leading power and constant and ignoring the unknowns. This left me with (x-2)^3 which you can then expand back using the same binomial expansion formula to find the missing coefficients. After expanding you get x^3-6x^2+12x-8 which follows the pattern of the original equation. Given that all of the roots in (x-2)^3 are real, and a and b are positive real numbers, I decided I could reasonably assume that my coefficients were correct. b = 12 so 12 is your answer.

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