My favorite nested radical identity

Calculus Level 2

n = 1 + 4 1 + 5 1 + 6 1 + n=\sqrt{1+4\sqrt{1+5\sqrt{1+6\sqrt{1+\cdots }}}}

What is the value of n ? n?


The answer is 5.

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10 solutions

Levi Walker
Oct 29, 2018

We can write this nested radical as g ( x ) = 1 + x 1 + ( x + 1 ) 1 + ( x + 2 ) 1 + . . . g(x) = \sqrt{1+x\sqrt{1+(x+1)\sqrt{1+(x+2)\sqrt{1+... }}}} Squaring both sides gives us [ g ( x ) ] 2 = 1 + x g ( x + 1 ) [g(x)]^2 = 1 + xg(x+1) We can tease out a few hints as to what g ( x ) g(x) is. For example, we can see that g ( 0 ) = 1 g(0)=1 . We can also see that squaring g ( x ) g(x) is on the same order as multiplying by x x , which tells us that if g ( x ) g(x) is a polynomial, then it must be a first-order polynomial. Thus, we can guess that it has a solution of the form g ( x ) = a x + 1 g(x) = ax+1 . Let's do some quick work to guarantee that this is right. ( a x + 1 ) 2 = 1 + x ( a x + a + 1 ) (ax+1)^2 = 1 + x(ax+a+1) a 2 x 2 + 2 a x + 1 = 1 + a x 2 + a x + x a^{2}x^{2} + 2ax + 1 = 1 + ax^2 + ax + x Which is only solved when a = 1 a=1 . Thus, g ( x ) = x + 1 g(x) = x+1 solves this equation. Finally g ( 4 ) = 1 + 4 1 + 5 1 + . . . = 1 + 4 = 5 g(4) = \sqrt{1+4\sqrt{1+5\sqrt{1+...}}} = 1+4 = 5

Can you show that g ( x ) = x + 1 g(x) = x+1 is the only solution to that functional equation? Otherwise there is significant ambiguity--just because x + 1 x+1 is one solution does not mean it is the solution in this case.

Patrick Corn - 2 years, 7 months ago

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Yes, since you can get the bounds g ( x ) x x x g(x) \ge \sqrt{x \sqrt{x \sqrt{\cdots}}} \ge x and g ( x ) ( x + 1 ) ( x + 2 ) ( x + 1 ) 1 2 3 2 ( x + 1 ) g(x) \le \sqrt{(x+1) \sqrt{(x+2) \sqrt{\cdots}}} \le (x+1) \sqrt{1 \sqrt{2 \sqrt{3}}} \le 2(x+1) .

Levi Walker - 2 years, 7 months ago

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Could you explain it in words how you did what you did? because when you said g(x) is a polynomial of degree 1, that part is very very unclear as to how you reach to that point and that g(x) = ax+1? Otherwise this has been a most satisfying solution.

Anish Bhola - 2 years, 6 months ago

Not that it makes too much of a difference but shouldn't the 3rd equation be: ( a x + 1 ) 2 = 1 + x ( a ( x + 1 ) + 1 ) (ax + 1)^2 = 1 + x(a(x+1) + 1) . This would mean the 4th equation would be a 2 x 2 + 2 a x + 1 = 1 + ( a + 1 ) x + a x 2 a^2 x^2 + 2 ax + 1 = 1 + (a+1) x + a x^2 . So a = 1 a=1 is still the only solution to this so it doesn't make too much of a difference.

Stephen Phillips - 2 years, 6 months ago

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You're totally right, I'm not sure how I missed that!

Levi Walker - 2 years, 6 months ago

wow wow wow hold the fuck up this is not sufficient. You note down some properties for g(x), namely that g(0) = 1, and that you can recursively get g(x+1) from g(x) for x>0. Then you define a second function h(x) = x + 1, and say that because h(0) = g(0), and if you assume that g(1) = h(1), then g(x) = h(x), then g(x) must also be equal to x + 1. However, that all hinges on the assumption that g(x) = h(x) for x = 1, or the assumption that g(x) is polynomial.

You don't get to make that assumption. For example, I'm going to claim that g(0) = 1, g(1) = 100, and from then on recursively for x>=2. Or g(1) = e. Probably wrong, but doesn't contradict the observations you have for g(x).

Peter Istev - 2 years, 6 months ago

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g ( x ) g(x) also has lower and upper bounds of x x and 2 ( x + 1 ) 2(x+1) , respectively; so the only possible solution is g ( x ) = x + 1 g(x) = x+1 .

Levi Walker - 2 years, 6 months ago

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From where did you get those bounds? And when you do have the bounds, how is that proof that g(x) = x+1 ?

Peter Istev - 2 years, 6 months ago

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@Peter Istev I posted the bounds under Partick Corn's comment. The bounds alone aren't proof that g ( x ) = x + 1 g(x) = x+1 ; but they ensure that the proof in my solution is correct (take g ( x ) = a x + b 1 a 2 0 b 1 g(x) = ax + b \: \: \: \: 1 \le a \le 2 \: \: \: \: 0 \le b \le 1 , where the latter holds becuase g ( 0 ) = 1 g(0) = 1 . a = 1 a=1 and b = 1 b=1 provide the only solutions to the functional equation.)

Levi Walker - 2 years, 6 months ago

How can you say that g(x) is polynomial

Mantra 93763 - 2 years ago
Chew-Seong Cheong
Oct 30, 2018

Ramanujan discovered in 1911 that:

x + m + a = a x + ( m + a ) 2 + x a ( x + m ) + ( m + a ) 2 + ( x + m ) a ( x + 2 m ) + ( m + a ) 2 + ( x + 2 m ) x+m+a = \sqrt{ax+(m+a)^2+x\sqrt{a(x+m)+(m+a)^2+(x+m)\sqrt{a(x+2m)+(m+a)^2+(x+2m)\sqrt \cdots}}}

Putting x = 4 x=4 , m = 1 m=1 and a = 0 a=0 , we have:

4 + 1 + 0 = 1 + 4 1 + 5 1 + 6 1 + 4+1+0 = \sqrt{1+4\sqrt{1+5\sqrt{1+6\sqrt {1+\cdots}}}}

Therefore, n = 5 n = \boxed 5 .


Proof: Consider f ( x ) = x + 1 f(x) = x + 1 , then f ( x ) = ( x + 1 ) 2 = 1 + x ( x + 2 ) = 1 + x f ( x + 1 ) f(x) = \sqrt{(x+1)^2} = \sqrt{1+x(x+2)} = \sqrt{1+xf(x+1)} . f ( x + 1 ) = 1 + ( x + 1 ) f ( x + 2 ) \implies f(x+1) = \sqrt{1+(x+1)f(x+2)} , f ( x + 2 ) = 1 + ( x + 2 ) f ( x + 3 ) f(x+2) = \sqrt{1+(x+2)f(x+3)} ... Therefore, x + 1 = 1 + x 1 + ( x + 1 ) 1 + ( x + 2 ) 1 + x + 1 = \sqrt{1+x\sqrt{1 + (x+1)\sqrt{1+(x+2)\sqrt {1+\cdots}}}} . Putting x = 4 x=4 , we have 5 = 1 + 4 1 + 5 1 + 6 1 + \boxed 5 = \sqrt{1+4\sqrt{1 + 5\sqrt{1+6 \sqrt {1+\cdots}}}} .

Where did you find this

N Kansara - 2 years, 7 months ago

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Nested Radical equation 27.

Chew-Seong Cheong - 2 years, 7 months ago
Mike Pannekoek
Nov 12, 2018

recall that
a 2 b 2 = ( a b ) ( a + b ) a^2-b^2=(a-b)(a+b) define
f ( x ) = 1 + x 1 + ( x + 1 ) 1 + . . . f(x) = \sqrt{1+x\sqrt{1+(x+1)\sqrt{1+...}}} so that n = f ( 4 ) n=f(4) now
f ( x ) = 1 + x f ( x + 1 ) f(x) = \sqrt{1+xf(x+1)} suppose f ( x ) = x + 1 f(x) = x+1 , this satisfies the previous recurrence relation, as
R H S = 1 + x ( x + 2 ) = 1 + ( x + 1 1 ) ( x + 1 + 1 ) = 1 + ( x + 1 ) 2 1 = ( x + 1 ) 2 = x + 1 = L H S = x + 1 RHS = \sqrt{1+x(x+2)} = \sqrt{1+(x+1-1)(x+1+1)} = \sqrt{1+(x+1)^2-1} = \sqrt{(x+1)^2} = x+1 = LHS = x+1 , thus f ( 4 ) = 4 + 1 = 5 f(4) = 4 + 1 = 5 is a possible value for n n



whaaaat, how do you come up to suppose that f(x) = x + 1,

Zhanbolat Kussainov - 2 years, 6 months ago

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my intuition was to just see what each value converges to, and I found that function by looking at the values in excel. I started with one, and then worked backwards through each square root starting from an arbitrary point, and it converges to those values quite nicely.

Mike Pannekoek - 2 years, 6 months ago
Michael Mendrin
Oct 30, 2018

Solve for x x in this equation:

3 = 1 + 2 1 + 3 x 3 = \sqrt{1+2\sqrt{1+3x}}

and get x = 5 x=5

This is based on one of Ramanujan's most well known infinite nested radicals, which is

3 = 1 + 2 1 + 3 1 + 4 1 + . . . 3 = \sqrt{1+2\sqrt{1+3\sqrt{1+4\sqrt{1+...}}}}

Did it same way.

lovro cupic - 2 years, 6 months ago

I solved it similarly.

Yugendra Uppalapati - 9 months, 3 weeks ago
Jam M
Nov 14, 2018

If a a and b b are nonnegative numbers, then a + b = b 2 + a ( a + b + b ) a+b = \sqrt{b^2 + a(a + b + b)} Applying the above formula to a + b + b a+b + b gives b 2 + a b 2 + ( a + b ) ( a + b + b + b ) = b 2 + a b 2 + ( a + b ) ( a + 2 b + b ) \sqrt{b^2 + a \sqrt{b^2 +(a+b)(a+b+b+b)}} = \sqrt{b^2 + a \sqrt{b^2 +(a+b)(a+2b+b)}} Applying the formula again to a + 2 b + b a+2b+b gives b 2 + a b 2 + ( a + b ) b 2 + ( a + 2 b ) ( a + 2 b + b + b ) = b 2 + a b 2 + ( a + b ) b 2 + ( a + 2 b ) ( a + 3 b + b ) \sqrt{b^2 + a \sqrt{b^2 +(a+b) \sqrt{b^2 + (a+2b)(a+2b+b+b)}}} = \sqrt{b^2 + a \sqrt{b^2 +(a+b) \sqrt{b^2 + (a+2b)(a+3b+b)}}} Continuing in the fashion, we get: a + b = b 2 + a b 2 + ( a + b ) b 2 + ( a + 2 b ) b 2 + ( a + 3 b ) b 2 + ( a + 4 b ) b 2 + a+b = \sqrt{b^2 + a \sqrt{b^2 +(a+b) \sqrt{b^2 + (a+2b) \sqrt{b^2 + (a+3b) \sqrt{b^2 + (a+4b) \sqrt{b^2 + \cdots}}}}}} This can be proven by induction. Putting a = 4 a = 4 and b = 1 b = 1 yields 5 = 1 + 4 1 + 5 1 + 6 1 + 5 = \sqrt{1 + 4 \sqrt{1 + 5 \sqrt{1 + 6 \sqrt{1 + \cdots}}}}

A different approach:

Define x k = k 1 + x k + 1 x_k = k \sqrt{1 + x_{k+1}} . We want x 3 / 3 x_3/3 . Let M > 3 M>3 an integer, and define y j y_j by y M k = x k y_{M-k} = x_k . Then y j = ( M j ) 1 + y j 1 , y 0 = x M y_j = (M - j) \sqrt{1+y_{j-1}}, y_0 = x_M . We now want y M 3 / 3 y_{M-3}/3 . Note that for any y 0 > 1 y_0 > -1 , y M 15 y_{M} \rightarrow 15 as M M \rightarrow \infty . So the answer is 15 / 3 = 5 15/3 = 5 .

Good job,Worth of an upvote.

D K - 2 years, 6 months ago

Could you please explain the last part, as to how, for any y(0)>-1, y(M)->15, as M->infinity.

Also, I assume y(j) is defined as y(M-j)=x(k).

Ha Sh - 2 years, 6 months ago
Abraham Zhang
Nov 11, 2018

The equation is in the form f ( x ) = 1 + x ( f ( x + 1 ) ) f(x)=\sqrt{1+x(f(x+1))} where x = 4 x=4 . Note that f ( x ) = x + 1 f(x)=x+1 satisfies this equation, i.e. x + 1 = 1 + x ( x + 2 ) x+1=\sqrt{1+x(x+2)} . Therefore, n = f ( 4 ) = 5 n=f(4)=5 .

Alex Jones
Nov 14, 2018

Trivial by Desmos Theorem

Vinod Kumar
Nov 14, 2018

Used WolframAlpha with increasing terms which seemingly are converging to (n+1) (here n=4 is the first term), therefore, 5 =4+1 is the answer.

Answer=5

However, it is interesting to show that solving

f(x)=√(1+n.f(1+x))

by assuming f(x)=x and f(1+x) = (1+x) gives simple solution

x=n+1, and

Answer = 5, ( n=4)

Sonu Gupra
Nov 2, 2018

5=(1+24)^1/2 24=4(6)=4(1+35)^1/2 35=5(7)=5(1+48)^1/2 48=6(8)=6(1+63)^1/2 ,,,, countinouosly so n=5

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