We have a curved plane which has a side view of a continous and double differential curve f : [ 0 , 1 ] → [ 0 , 1 ] , y = f ( x ) with y ( 0 ) = 0 , y ( 1 ) = 1 and d x d y ≥ 0 , d x 2 d 2 y ≥ 0
In this co-ordinate system 1 unit = 1 metre. Also gravity is present in the − y direction having a value of 1 0 m / s 2 .
An point object is released from the point ( 1 , 1 ) on the plane and it takes time t to reach the leave the plane from the bottom.
Let the minimum value of t be t m i n .
Find ⌊ 1 0 0 0 t m i n ⌋
The plane is smooth there is no friction present.You may use any computer software you want, any possible resources.
This is original. Check out my Set
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I did it by solving euler's lagrange equation.
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The only thing familiar to me in that is "Euler","Lagrange", and "equation" XD . I couldn't even solve it using the simple differential equations we get while using light, let alone hardcore calculus.
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@Raghav Vaidyanathan - its not at all complicated if you use energy conservation like i did, if you wish to solve it directly however using the E-L equation
Then yes, it is a pain in the ass
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@Mvs Saketh – I don't know lagrangian mechanics, but as I said earlier I have used Calculus of Variations.
@Mvs Saketh – To tell you the truth, I'm not very familiar with tough physics problems like you guys are. All I have is class 12 JEE knowledge. This is the first time I'm hearing of E-L equations. I did understand the wikipedia proof, and felt as if I could have done it on my own(but that is just hindsight). I feel disappointed that I did not start brilliant in class 10 or 11, because now I don't have the time to really learn these awesome things.
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@Raghav Vaidyanathan – You can learn it after JEE as well, there is nothing much in lagrangian mechanics except math , however one must conceptually understand calculus of variations instead of as many do, simply remember the E-L equation
Ronak , This is really awesome , situation , I almost spent almost hour on Internet and try to understands and doing analysis of "Brachistochrone" curve , I am able to understand "euler's lagrange equation" method , but Optics method goes tangent over my head . But after then again I spend almost half hour on calculating time using hand integration . Thanks for posting this problem @Ronak Agarwal
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Honestly speaking, I have neither read cycloid as a solution to this problem nor Brachistrochrone curve, this situation automatically came to my mind and I tackled it using euler's lagrange equation and posted this problem.
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@Ronak Agarwal – I know brother , you are ingenius , and your all physics problems are originals . Really great thinking . Actually I formed integration in terms of y , y' and dx , but I did not know how to find maximum value under integral , So I searched on net , and there I found that this is called as Brachistrochrone curve and then i read all about it , till I understand it . Really Nice question , I learn lot of things from it . :)
@Ronak Agarwal – That is very surprising! Every single resource that I have, related to the Euler-Langrange equations or calculus of variations has the brachistrochrone as it's first example as it is the easiest of such questions...So I'm curious to know where you learnt calculus of variations from?
Please reply.
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@Shashwat Shukla – Again being honest, I have not learnt calculus of variations, I have only read it's wikipedia article. I am yet to read this topic, I just want to solve this problem and that's it.
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@Ronak Agarwal – Wow. That's really awesome :D
Proof that curve is cycloid
the time integral is given by
∫ 0 1 2 g y 1 + ( y ′ ) 2 d x = T
(note i have shifted origin and flipped figure horizontally in mind for convinience, it wont affect answer)
so we have our Lagrange as
2 g y 1 + ( y ′ ) 2
which is independent of x (explicitly)
and we know that , when
∂ x ∂ L = 0 L − y ′ ∂ y ′ ∂ L = k
so we have here a simple relation (which you can check for yourself)
y ( 1 + ( y ′ ) 2 ) = c
whose solution is a cycloid (motion of particle attached to rim of wheel)
Now, look at Raghav's solution
Nice problem, however, this is the first problem everyone solves after Learning the lagrange method,
Whats interesting however is that Isaac Newton solved this without calculus with in a day
Here is another interesting problem where cycloid comes into play
https://brilliant.org/problems/geometry-kinematics-challenge/?group=UZg8UXKeTEJn&ref_id=650641
Have you tried my problem Integral limit ,honestly speaking that question is related to this in some way).
I have made that problem from the analysis of this problem you should try this
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Yes, i did try it, but all conventional methods failed for me, however i shall try it again now
Can I post my solution there, will you see if my thinking is right?
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No, please dont , i and many others are yet to solve it :)
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@Mvs Saketh – He is posting the solution there not here don't worry mvs Saketh.
You should post your solution there, I want solutions. But don't post it here.
ohh , It was much complicated then I thought .
https://brilliant.org/problems/rotation-and-elongation-of-a-spring/?group=34cxj3nQPZFc&ref_id=704818
PLEASE TRY
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Great question Ronak! I actually knew that the curve will be a cycloid. I've seen this in many science museums where they say straight line path is not always the fastest. The proof by Fertmat's principle was also familiar to me, although I couldn't do it now, I remember my science camp teacher telling me about this. For proof that this curve is a cycloid, refer here and here
Once we have the parametric equation:
x = a ( t − s i n ( t ) ) + c 1 , y = a ( 1 − c o s ( t ) ) + c 2
We now have to find the member of this family that passes through both ( 1 , 1 ) and ( 0 , 0 ) . At the initial point, the curve has to be perpendicular to horizontal(refer wiki proof). so now, for t = 0 , the curve must be at ( 1 , 1 ) . Hence c 1 = c 2 = 1 . Now, in order to pass through ( 0 , 0 ) , a will be such that:
a ( t 0 − s i n ( t 0 ) ) = a ( 1 − c o s ( t 0 ) ) = − 1 .
Solving for t and a , we get:
t 0 = 2 . 4 1 2 and a = − 0 . 5 7 2 9
Now observe that velocity at ( x , y ) is given by: v = 2 g ( 1 − y )
Distance moved along curve when velocity is v is: 1 + ( d x d y ) 2 d x
Hence the total time taken will be given by:
T = ∫ 1 0 2 g ( 1 − y ) 1 + ( d x d y ) 2 d x
We know d x d y and x in terms of t . Hence we will write everything in terms of t and substitute x = a ( t − s i n ( t ) ) in the integral to get:
T = g ∣ a ∣ ∫ 0 t 0 1 − c o s ( t ) 1 − c o s ( t ) d t
⇒ T = t 0 g ∣ a ∣
Now substitute known values to get answer as 5 7 7 .