Petals of a Flower

Logic Level 1

The flower Betty and Daisy are plucking isn't necessarily this one. The flower Betty and Daisy are plucking isn't necessarily this one.

Betty and Daisy are looking at a flower.

Betty: "Daisy, have you ever wondered how many petals this flower has?"
Daisy: "Beats me! We can remove the petals of the flower to count them out."

Betty: "Hmm. It seems that after I remove 1 of the petals, the number of petals left is a multiple of 1."
Daisy: "Okay. It seems that after I remove 2 more of the petals, the number of petals left is a multiple of 2."
Betty: "Amazing! It seems that after I remove 3 more of the petals, the number of petals left is a multiple of 3."

In the next turn, after Daisy removes 4 more of the petals, can the number of petals left be a multiple of 4?

Yes No

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18 solutions

Winston Choo
Sep 8, 2018

After Betty and Daisy removed 3 petals, the number of petals left is a multiple of 2.

Hence, the number of petals this beautiful flower have is odd.

So when Daisy removes 4 more petals from the flower, 10 petals would have been removed in total.

Therefore, the number of petals left will still be odd. (Odd - Even)

Hence, the number of petals left is not a multiple of 4.

After they remove all the 10 petals do the number of left petals has to be only a multiply of 4 or of 1, 2, 3 and 4?

B D - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Well, the number of petals left is definitely a multiple of 1, but it is not a multiple of 2, as 7 more petals were removed from the flower when the number of petals left was a multiple of 2. Similarly, it is not a multiple of 3, as 4 more petals were removed from the flower when the number of petals left was a multiple of 3. This question is only asking for multiple of 4, but you can infer that the number of petals left after 10 petals have been removed cannot be a multiple of 2 and 3. Hope that answered your question!

Winston Choo - 2 years, 9 months ago

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It can be a multiply of 2 and 3. 12 is a multiply of 2 and 3.

B D - 2 years, 9 months ago

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@B D And 1 and 4.

B D - 2 years, 9 months ago

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@B D Dude. Did you misunderstand the question?

Winston Choo - 2 years, 9 months ago

@B D Wait a minute what about 12 makes you intrigued?

Winston Choo - 2 years, 9 months ago

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@Winston Choo It is a multiply of 1 2 3 4.

B D - 2 years, 9 months ago

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@B D Dude I know what your are thinking. 11 is a multiple of 1, 10 is a multiple of 2, 9 is a multiple of 3, so since 8 is a multiple of 4, it should be yes right? But this problem is about taking a total of 1 petal at first, then 3, then 6, then 10. It is a different pattern of numbers.

Winston Choo - 2 years, 9 months ago

@B D This problem is about taking 1 petal at first, then 2 more, then 3 more, then finally 4 more. This is not the same as taking 1, then go back to the number of petals on the flower and take 2, and so on. Note that Betty and Daisy saw this 1 beautiful flower, not more than 1. Hence, you should be able to infer that when they take the number of petals one by one, they are talking about the 1 flower.

I specifically wrote "2 more", "3 more" and "4 more" to prevent other people from misunderstanding this problem. I think you should try to understand this as well.

Winston Choo - 2 years, 9 months ago

I'm going to assume (dangerous, I know) that those girls KNOW how many petals are left after removing, say, one petal (or three, or however many they remove). OR, they just counted them ALL at first. True ?

Jesse Otis - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Ehhhh it is something like after removing 1 petal, then they count the remaining petals in groups of 1.

And when they are removing 2 more petals, they count again the remaining petals in groups of 2, and realise none is left over.

And so on so forth.

So they might not know how many petals are left after removing, and might not have counted them all at first. xD

Winston Choo - 2 years, 8 months ago

I'm confused. Removing one petal makes it divisible by 1 which makes it odd. Remove 2 more and you should get an odd number but it's somehow divisible by 2?

Jack G - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Every integer is divisble by 1, so that first step doesn't tell us much. After two further petals have been removed (3 total), the number of petals remaining must be even, as it's divisible by 2. We can then work backwards to add those three petals back on to establish that the original number of petals was odd. We can also work forwards to show that when another three have been removed (6 total), it must now have an odd number of petals. Removing 4 petals more (10 total) will keep it at an odd number, hence it can't be divisible by 4.

Chris Sparke - 2 years, 8 months ago

Even numbers are also divisible by 1, not only odd numbers.

Winston Choo - 2 years, 8 months ago

wrong cause it literally says that the flower shown is NOT TO SCALE

Joshua Law - 2 years, 8 months ago
Venkatachalam J
Sep 30, 2018

very intuitional

Moke Insmage - 2 years, 7 months ago
Garv Khurana
Sep 30, 2018

Once Daisy removed 1 petal, it didn't give us any crucial information. However, she did this before removing two more petals, which was stated to be a multiple of 2. So after removing (1+2)=3 petals, the number of petals remaining was even.

This means the number of original petals was an even number + 3 = an odd number.

So after she removes (1+2+3+4)=10 petals, the number of petals remaining must be the original odd number - 10 = another odd number. Obviously, there are no odd numbers that are divisible by 4.

Therefore the number of petals remaining cannot be a multiple of 4.

Just for fun let's look at some examples that satisfy the first three criteria. If you plug in 15, you will find that it is an example. There are actually infinitely many examples. Let's list the next few examples: 21, 27, 33, 39, etc. We can prove that all numbers in the form of 6k+3, where k is an integer, is an example, provided that k>1. (If you want to prove that it is an example, you can try checking from the steps above for the flower petal). These numbers are actually the only examples for this question (By "only", I mean the infinitely many examples).

So the number of petals remaining cannot be a multiple of 4, and from the information already provided, the number of petals is 6*(an integer>1) +3.

I think your list should be 21, 27, 33.

James Hall - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Thanks, I'll change that.

Garv Khurana - 2 years, 8 months ago

Thanks for the helpful solution!.

Ansel Erol - 2 years, 8 months ago
Peter Macgregor
Oct 1, 2018

Let's * suppose Daisy can remove the final four petals leaving a multiple of four * and then go on to get a contradiction.

When three petals have been removed we have a multiple of 2 left, so we can say

n 3 = 2 p n-3=2p

When a total of ten petals (1+2+3+4) have been removed we are left with a multiple of 4, so we can say

n 10 = 4 q n-10=4q

Now solve each of these equations for n and equate the answers to get

2 p + 3 = 4 q + 10 2p+3=4q+10

But this is impossible! Because the LHS is odd and the RHS is even.

Concluding our proof by contradiction we must deny our supposition and say

Daisy cannot remove the final four petals leaving a multiple of four \boxed{\text{ Daisy cannot remove the final four petals leaving a multiple of four }}

Marta Reece
Sep 29, 2018

If the number of petals is x x , then x 1 2 = x 3 x-1-2=x-3 must be even. So x 1 2 3 4 = x 10 x-1-2-3-4=x-10 must be odd, and odd number may not be divisible by 4 4 .

Paul Laws
Oct 4, 2018

The value in step 3 must be a multiple of 12 as it's divisible by 3 and 4. The difference between steps 2 and 3 is odd (3), which makes step 2 odd, but we know it's even. This is a contradiction, so the premise is false.

Sharan Mourya
Oct 3, 2018

n-1 = 1 x
n-3 = 2
y => n is odd.
n-6 = 3*z => n is a multiple of 3
n-10 = 2y-7 ,which is odd and can't be a multiple of 4

Krishna Karthik
Oct 2, 2018

take the number of petals that this flower as n. n can be either even or odd. when 1 is taken from n, n is divisible by 1, which is obvious. when 2 further is taken by n, it is divisible by 2, which means the result must be even. when we add an odd number to an even number, the result is always odd.

when 3 is taken from n, it is a multiple of 2, therefore the n-3 is even. But since it is even, and you add 3, an odd number to it, you get that n is odd. when 4 petals are plucked out of it further, the total number taken away from n is 10. An odd number minus an even number is odd, therefore since n-10 is odd, the number of petals remaining can't be divisible by 4.

We may assume the number of petal in order to create a simple solution! We will start from the final step!

In the final step the remaining petal is the multiple of 3! we assume its 3! Thus, before removing the last one there should be 4! and it is a multiple of 2! And the first one is a multiple of 1, it have to be correct!

Now back to the rest of this solution! If we remove another petal the ramaining petal is 2! And it couldn't be a multiple of 4!

So the answer is NO

The number of petals in tha flower can be the L.C.M of 1,2 &3or it's multiples. For example,- the number can be 6 which is not a multiple of 4 whereas it can also be 12 then it is a multiple of 4.

Biswajeet Malla
Oct 3, 2018

If we consider the number 15...we can easily see the solution before us

Sumina Shrestha
Oct 3, 2018

When Betty removes l Petal of the flower ,the flower lost a petal and is a multiple of 1 which isn’t enough information because we need to find the amount of petal is odd or even. When daisy removed 2 more petal, together the petal lost 3 petal and now the flower has a multiple of 2.

2times2 =4 2times3 =6 2times4 =8 2times5 =10 2times6 =12

Any of this numbers added to 3 will equal an odd number. When Betty again removed 3 more petals altogether 6 petals are removed and it’s still multiple of 3.

3times2 =6 3times3 =9 3times4 =12

So when we add 6 with any multiple of 3 it will be odd. When daisy removes 4 more petals it can’t be multiple of 4 because no multiple of 4 is an odd number

And the answer might be 15

Gabor Koranyi
Oct 2, 2018

Suppose that the remaining petals are a multiple of 4, i.e. 4k. Then one move before it was 4k+3, a muliple of 3. One move before that it was 4k+5, a multiple of 2 which is impossible, because it is an odd number. So our starting assumption is false.

Abhay Sapra
Oct 2, 2018

Let the number of petals be 'x'. If I remove 3 petals (1 and 2 more) I am left with a multiple of 2. That is (x - 3) is a multiple of 2. Which means x is a odd number. Now after removing 7 more petals ( 3 + 4 ) I will be left with (x - 10). Since x is a odd number, (x-10) will also be an odd number. Which means it can't be a multiple of 4.

Hitesh Kaushik
Oct 2, 2018

I just simplified it, suppose the flower has 100 petals.

1 removed ➡️ left 99 = multiple of 1

2 more removed➡️ left 97 🚫 multiple of 2 (🚫 Means not equal)

Abha Vishwakarma
Oct 1, 2018

We can prove this by the method of contradiction.

Suppose after removing 1 , 2 , 3 1, 2, 3 and 4 4 number of petals, we get 4 n 4n number of petals. Where n n is a positive integer.

Then according to the question, 4 n + 4 4n + 4 number of petals should be a multiple of 3, i.e. 4 ( n + 1 ) 4(n+1) is divisible by 3. Since 4 is not divisible by 3, ( n + 1 ) (n+1) should be divisible by 3 which is possible for n = 2 , 5 , 8. n= 2,5,8. \dots

Again after adding 3 more petals we get 4 ( n + 1 ) + 3 4(n+1) +3 number of petals, which should be divisible by 2. Since 4 is a multiple of 2, 4 ( n + 1 ) 4(n+1) is also a multiple of 2. So for 4 ( n + 1 ) + 3 4(n+1) +3 number of petals to be divisible by 2, 3 should be divisible by 2, which is not possible. Hence after removing 1 , 2 , 3 1, 2, 3 and 4 4 number of petals it is impossible to have 4 n 4n number of petals.

Abhishek Biswas
Oct 1, 2018

8 is the only number which is a multiple of 4 and if you add 4 it will be a multiple of 3. So 8+4=12 which is a multiple of 3 and 12+3=15 which is not a multiple of 2. So there will be no such number for the above question.

But 8 is definitely not the "only" such number... since 20 is another example. So is 32. And there are actually infinitely many with that property.

C . - 2 years, 8 months ago
Evolution :Mx6
Sep 23, 2018

Ez ;) When 2 petals are removed the number of petals remaining is a multiple of 2, i.e., it's even. Before this 1 petal was removed. Which means to begin with, we had an odd number of petals. Now, after removing the next 3 petals, a total of 3+2+1=6 petals have been removed. The number of petals left behind has got to be odd. (Odd-Even=Odd) Now, next after removing 4 petals, the number of petals remaining will still be odd. (Odd-Even=Odd, remember?). But 4 definitely cannot divide an odd number. So, no, that's not possible.

Winston, nice footnote, dude.

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