Plenty of Integrate by Parts?

Calculus Level 4

Given that 0 sin x x d x = π 2 \large \displaystyle \int_0^\infty \dfrac { \sin x}{x} \, dx = \dfrac {\pi}{2} .

If the value of 0 sin 9 x x d x = a π b \large \displaystyle \int_0^\infty \dfrac { \sin^9 x}{x} \, dx = \dfrac {a\pi}{b} for coprime positive integers a a and b b , what is the value of a + b a+b ?


The answer is 291.

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3 solutions

Pranav Arora
Mar 25, 2014

We are given the following:

0 e i x e i x 2 i x d x = π 2 ( ) \displaystyle \int_0^{\infty} \frac{e^{ix}-e^{-ix}}{2ix}\,dx=\frac{\pi}{2}\,\,\,(*)

We have to find the value of

0 ( e i x e i x ) 9 2 9 i x d x \displaystyle \int_0^{\infty} \frac{(e^{ix}-e^{-ix})^9}{2^9ix}\,dx

Expand the numerator using Binomial theorem to get:

( e i x e i x ) 9 = ( 9 0 ) e i 9 x ( 9 1 ) e i 7 x + ( 9 2 ) e i 5 x ( 9 3 ) e i 3 x + ( 9 4 ) e i x ( 9 5 ) e i x + ( 9 6 ) e i 3 x ( 9 7 ) e i 5 x + ( 9 8 ) e i 7 x ( 9 9 ) e i 9 x \displaystyle (e^{ix}-e^{-ix})^9={9 \choose 0}e^{i9x}-{9 \choose 1}e^{i7x}+{9 \choose 2}e^{i5x}-{9 \choose 3}e^{i3x}+{9 \choose 4}e^{ix}-{9 \choose 5}e^{-ix}+{9 \choose 6}e^{-i3x}-{9 \choose 7}e^{-i5x}+{9 \choose 8}e^{-i7x}-{9 \choose 9}e^{-i9x}

( e i x e i x ) 9 = ( 9 0 ) ( e i 9 x e i 9 x ) ( 9 1 ) ( e i 7 x e i 7 x ) + ( 9 2 ) ( e i 5 x e i 5 x ) ( 9 3 ) ( e i 3 x e i 3 x ) + ( 9 4 ) ( e i x e i x ) \Rightarrow \displaystyle (e^{ix}-e^{-ix})^9={9 \choose 0}\left(e^{i9x}-e^{-i9x}\right)-{9 \choose 1}\left(e^{i7x}-e^{-i7x}\right)+{9 \choose 2}\left(e^{i5x}-e^{-i5x}\right)-{9 \choose 3}\left(e^{i3x}-e^{-i3x}\right)+{9 \choose 4}\left(e^{ix}-e^{-ix}\right)

When the above is substituted in the integral we have to evaluate, we get the following kind of integral:

0 e i n x e i n x x d x \int_0^{\infty} \frac{e^{inx}-e^{-inx}}{x}\,dx

To evaluate the above, use the substitution n x = t nx=t and using ( ) (*) , we get, i π i\pi . Hence,

0 ( e i x e i x ) 9 2 9 i x d x = 1 2 9 i ( ( 9 0 ) ( 9 1 ) + ( 9 2 ) ( 9 3 ) + ( 9 4 ) ) ( i π ) = π 2 9 ( 70 ) \displaystyle \int_0^{\infty} \frac{(e^{ix}-e^{-ix})^9}{2^9ix}\,dx =\frac{1}{2^9i}\left({9 \choose 0}-{9 \choose 1}+{9 \choose 2}-{9 \choose 3}+{9 \choose 4}\right)(i\pi)=\frac{\pi}{2^9}(70)

0 ( e i x e i x ) 9 2 9 i x d x = 35 π 256 \displaystyle \Rightarrow \int_0^{\infty} \frac{(e^{ix}-e^{-ix})^9}{2^9ix}\,dx=\boxed{\dfrac{35\pi}{256}}

Ahh!? I didn't see it you've made this solution. Well done Pranav! (y)

Tunk-Fey Ariawan - 7 years, 2 months ago

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Thank you Tunk! :)

Pranav Arora - 7 years, 2 months ago

Excellent

Pi Han Goh - 7 years, 2 months ago

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Haha, thanks a lot Pi Han! :)

Now, how to do it by parts? Or was that to troll? :D

Pranav Arora - 7 years, 2 months ago

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Troll.

Pi Han Goh - 7 years, 2 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh but the first step pranav used is for hyperbolic sin function and not sin itself, pl tell if i am wrong ?

A Former Brilliant Member - 4 years, 9 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member nope. they are about the same. Hint: what is the relationship between sin(x) and sinh(ix)?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 9 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh oh ! thanks big bro , now i get it .

A Former Brilliant Member - 4 years, 9 months ago
Otto Bretscher
Mar 11, 2016

For odd n n we have the Fourier series

sin n x = ( e i x e i x 2 i ) n = 2 n ( 1 ) n 1 2 i k = 0 n ( 1 ) k ( n k ) e ( n 2 k ) i x \sin^n x=\left(\frac{e^{ix}-e^{-ix}}{2i}\right)^n=-2^{-n}(-1)^{\frac{n-1}{2}}i\sum_{k=0}^{n}(-1)^k{n \choose k}e^{(n-2k)ix}

= 2 n ( 1 ) n 1 2 i k = 0 n 1 2 ( 1 ) k ( n k ) ( e ( n 2 k ) i x e ( n 2 k ) i x ) =-2^{-n}(-1)^{\frac{n-1}{2}}i\sum_{k=0}^{\frac{n-1}{2}}(-1)^k{n \choose k}\left(e^{(n-2k)ix}-e^{-(n-2k)ix}\right)

= 2 1 n k = 0 n 1 2 ( 1 ) ( n 1 2 + k ) ( n k ) sin ( ( n 2 k ) x ) =2^{1-n}\sum_{k=0}^{\frac{n-1}{2}}(-1)^{(\frac{n-1}{2}+k)}{n \choose k}\sin((n-2k)x)

so

0 sin n x x d x = π 2 n k = 0 n 1 2 ( 1 ) ( n 1 2 + k ) ( n k ) \int_{0}^{\infty}\frac{\sin^n x}{x}dx=\frac{\pi}{2^n}\sum_{k=0}^{\frac{n-1}{2}}(-1)^{(\frac{n-1}{2}+k)}{n \choose k}

For n = 9 n=9 this comes out to be 35 π 256 \frac{35\pi}{256} , so that the answer is 291 \boxed{291}

How is Fourier series related to any part of your working? Because I don't see any application of Fourier series here.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 3 months ago

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2 1 n k = 0 n 1 2 ( 1 ) ( n 1 2 + k ) ( n k ) sin ( ( n 2 k ) x ) 2^{1-n}\sum_{k=0}^{\frac{n-1}{2}}(-1)^{(\frac{n-1}{2}+k)}{n \choose k}\sin((n-2k)x) is the Fourier series of sin n ( x ) \sin^n(x) for odd n n

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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Got a proof?

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh The proof is in my post, step by step.

Does it make sense, Comrade @Pi Han Goh ?

My modest intention was to write @Pranav Arora 's solution for general odd n n to show how it implies @Tunk-Fey Ariawan ' s formula.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher No idea what you're talking about.

I don't see any close resemblence to the common form of Fourier series:

s m ( x ) = a 0 2 + k = 1 m ( a k cos ( k x ) + b k sin ( k x ) ) s_m (x) = \dfrac{a_0}2 + \sum_{k=1}^m (a_k \cos(kx) + b_k \sin(kx) )

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Look again! It's an odd function, so a k = 0 a_k=0 and b n 2 k = 2 1 n ( 1 ) ( n 1 ) / 2 + k ( n k ) b_{n-2k}=2^{1-n}(-1)^{(n-1)/2+k}{n \choose k}

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher I can't follow. You're missing out on a lot of steps.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Maybe you are overthinking it. The Fourier series is a linear combination of cos ( k x ) , sin ( k x ) \cos(kx), \sin(kx) and 1... and that is the format of my formula.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher Let me put it this way: I understood everything if you omitted the words "we have the Fourier series" because all your steps are just plain algebraic manipulation. I don't see why you want to introduce a scarier topic when it's not necessary.

Plus, you didn't mention that you use the fact that 0 sin x x d x = π 2 \int_0^\infty \frac {\sin x}x \, dx = \frac \pi2 , because I was wondering for awhile on how you managed to solve that integral without applying that fact.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh I'm using the integral 0 sin x x d x \int_{0}^{\infty}\frac{\sin x}{x}dx in that step where I say "so"; you can see the factor π 2 \frac{\pi}{2} popping up. ;)

See, for me the Fourier series isn't a "scary topic", au contraire, it means that we are on familiar ground. The Fourier series of sin n ( x ) \sin^n(x) is well known to physicists and to mathematicians working in certain fields. But I agree that the usage of the term isn't essential for my argument.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher Yeah, "the factor π 2 \frac\pi2 popping up" is not obvious at all for any normal user.

The reason why I said Fourier series is a scary topic is because it isn't taught in high school and most users in this site are high school students only, so it will definitely look scary to (most of) them.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Should we stop talking about "good" math so as not to scare anybody?!

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher I don't quite understand what you meant, nor do I understand your frustration (your exclamation mark at the end). What is "good" math?

I apologize in advance if I offended you in any way.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Trust me, I find a few people on here offensive and obnoxious, but you are not one of them. I value your sincerity and curiosity. I sense that you care about mathematics more than about always "being right."

I realize that the solutions I write are often "too short" for most of the users. For one thing, I'm not very good with LATEX, and I always feel a bit guilty about spending "too much" time on Brilliant.

Oh, what is "good mathematics", a deep and important question. I don't feel qualified to write on the subject, but I have noticed that all the world-class mathematicians I have met deeply believe that there is such a thing. I have gotten to know many of them quite well, teaching courses together at Harvard (people like Mazur, Mumford, Tate, Elkies, Yau, Diaconis, Edward Frenkel, Richard Taylor et al). I feel that they are world-class mathematicians due at least in part to the fact that they have a "taste" for "good mathematics."

There is a nuanced essay by the great Terence Tao (whom I do not know personally) on the subject, "What is good mathematics."

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher

I find a few people on here offensive and obnoxious.

This is the internet. Once a site reached a certain popularity, you will inevitably run into people who will deliberately try to piss you off. It's not worth losing your temper because of them.

I sense that you care about mathematics more than about always "being right."

What do you mean? Math is about being right, no?

Here's a good start to learn some LaTeX .

This Terence Tao's good math ? Way too much advanced math there. I understood like 0.000001% of it.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh There is a (big) difference between being right (as in correct) and the relentless insistence that one's own solution is the best (or even only) way to think about a problem, what we call "Besserwisserei" oder "Rechthaberei" in German. I need to learn to avoid disputes with these kind of guys... just let it go... it brings nothing.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 2 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher Anyway, thanks for the dialog. Comrade : )

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 2 months ago
Tunk-Fey Ariawan
Mar 24, 2014

In general 0 sin 2 n 1 x d x = π 2 2 n 1 k = 0 n 1 ( 1 ) k + n 1 ( 2 n 1 k ) , n N . \int_0^\infty\frac{\sin^{2n-1}}{x}dx=\frac{\pi}{2^{2n-1}}\sum_{k=0}^{n-1}(-1)^{k+n-1}\binom{2n-1}{k},\quad n\in\mathbb{N}. Sorry, no proof given. This is formula from old college assignment. Anyway, try this: Insane Integral .


# Q . E . D . # \text{\# }\mathbb{Q.E.D.}\text{ \#}

Hi Tunk! :)

Can you please share a link which shows the proof of your formula?

Thanks!

Pranav Arora - 7 years, 2 months ago

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I didn't take this formula from any other website. It's an old stuff from my college assignment. You can get this formula by calculating: I n = 0 sin 2 n 1 x d x . I_n=\int_0^\infty\frac{\sin^{2n-1}}{x}dx. Just take n = 1 , 2 n=1,2 and 3 3 then you can generalize it.

Tunk-Fey Ariawan - 7 years, 2 months ago

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I didn't mean that you took the formula somewhere from internet. I asked if there is a proof for this discussed somewhere. :)

Pranav Arora - 7 years, 2 months ago

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@Pranav Arora You might be kidding me Pranav!? I'm absolutely sure that you know how to derive this formula. You've already proven it above! :)

How if I make problem like this:

0 sin 8 x x 4 d x . \int_0^\infty\frac{\sin^8 x}{x^4}dx.

Can you answer it? :D

Tunk-Fey Ariawan - 7 years, 2 months ago

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@Tunk-Fey Ariawan You can post the solution here

Pi Han Goh - 7 years, 2 months ago

@Tunk-Fey Ariawan Woops, I see it now, thanks Tunk! :)

For the integral you gave me, I need some time to figure it out.

Pranav Arora - 7 years, 2 months ago

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@Pranav Arora Call me Fey or Ari! :D

BTW, see this .

Tunk-Fey Ariawan - 7 years, 2 months ago

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