Given that
∫
0
∞
x
sin
x
d
x
=
2
π
.
If the value of ∫ 0 ∞ x sin 9 x d x = b a π for coprime positive integers a and b , what is the value of a + b ?
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Ahh!? I didn't see it you've made this solution. Well done Pranav! (y)
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Haha, thanks a lot Pi Han! :)
Now, how to do it by parts? Or was that to troll? :D
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Troll.
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@Pi Han Goh – but the first step pranav used is for hyperbolic sin function and not sin itself, pl tell if i am wrong ?
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@A Former Brilliant Member – nope. they are about the same. Hint: what is the relationship between sin(x) and sinh(ix)?
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@Pi Han Goh – oh ! thanks big bro , now i get it .
For odd n we have the Fourier series
sin n x = ( 2 i e i x − e − i x ) n = − 2 − n ( − 1 ) 2 n − 1 i k = 0 ∑ n ( − 1 ) k ( k n ) e ( n − 2 k ) i x
= − 2 − n ( − 1 ) 2 n − 1 i k = 0 ∑ 2 n − 1 ( − 1 ) k ( k n ) ( e ( n − 2 k ) i x − e − ( n − 2 k ) i x )
= 2 1 − n k = 0 ∑ 2 n − 1 ( − 1 ) ( 2 n − 1 + k ) ( k n ) sin ( ( n − 2 k ) x )
so
∫ 0 ∞ x sin n x d x = 2 n π k = 0 ∑ 2 n − 1 ( − 1 ) ( 2 n − 1 + k ) ( k n )
For n = 9 this comes out to be 2 5 6 3 5 π , so that the answer is 2 9 1
How is Fourier series related to any part of your working? Because I don't see any application of Fourier series here.
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2 1 − n ∑ k = 0 2 n − 1 ( − 1 ) ( 2 n − 1 + k ) ( k n ) sin ( ( n − 2 k ) x ) is the Fourier series of sin n ( x ) for odd n
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Got a proof?
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@Pi Han Goh – The proof is in my post, step by step.
Does it make sense, Comrade @Pi Han Goh ?
My modest intention was to write @Pranav Arora 's solution for general odd n to show how it implies @Tunk-Fey Ariawan ' s formula.
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@Otto Bretscher – No idea what you're talking about.
I don't see any close resemblence to the common form of Fourier series:
s m ( x ) = 2 a 0 + k = 1 ∑ m ( a k cos ( k x ) + b k sin ( k x ) )
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@Pi Han Goh – Look again! It's an odd function, so a k = 0 and b n − 2 k = 2 1 − n ( − 1 ) ( n − 1 ) / 2 + k ( k n )
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@Otto Bretscher – I can't follow. You're missing out on a lot of steps.
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@Pi Han Goh – Maybe you are overthinking it. The Fourier series is a linear combination of cos ( k x ) , sin ( k x ) and 1... and that is the format of my formula.
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@Otto Bretscher – Let me put it this way: I understood everything if you omitted the words "we have the Fourier series" because all your steps are just plain algebraic manipulation. I don't see why you want to introduce a scarier topic when it's not necessary.
Plus, you didn't mention that you use the fact that ∫ 0 ∞ x sin x d x = 2 π , because I was wondering for awhile on how you managed to solve that integral without applying that fact.
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@Pi Han Goh – I'm using the integral ∫ 0 ∞ x sin x d x in that step where I say "so"; you can see the factor 2 π popping up. ;)
See, for me the Fourier series isn't a "scary topic", au contraire, it means that we are on familiar ground. The Fourier series of sin n ( x ) is well known to physicists and to mathematicians working in certain fields. But I agree that the usage of the term isn't essential for my argument.
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@Otto Bretscher – Yeah, "the factor 2 π popping up" is not obvious at all for any normal user.
The reason why I said Fourier series is a scary topic is because it isn't taught in high school and most users in this site are high school students only, so it will definitely look scary to (most of) them.
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@Pi Han Goh – Should we stop talking about "good" math so as not to scare anybody?!
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@Otto Bretscher – I don't quite understand what you meant, nor do I understand your frustration (your exclamation mark at the end). What is "good" math?
I apologize in advance if I offended you in any way.
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@Pi Han Goh – Trust me, I find a few people on here offensive and obnoxious, but you are not one of them. I value your sincerity and curiosity. I sense that you care about mathematics more than about always "being right."
I realize that the solutions I write are often "too short" for most of the users. For one thing, I'm not very good with LATEX, and I always feel a bit guilty about spending "too much" time on Brilliant.
Oh, what is "good mathematics", a deep and important question. I don't feel qualified to write on the subject, but I have noticed that all the world-class mathematicians I have met deeply believe that there is such a thing. I have gotten to know many of them quite well, teaching courses together at Harvard (people like Mazur, Mumford, Tate, Elkies, Yau, Diaconis, Edward Frenkel, Richard Taylor et al). I feel that they are world-class mathematicians due at least in part to the fact that they have a "taste" for "good mathematics."
There is a nuanced essay by the great Terence Tao (whom I do not know personally) on the subject, "What is good mathematics."
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I find a few people on here offensive and obnoxious.
This is the internet. Once a site reached a certain popularity, you will inevitably run into people who will deliberately try to piss you off. It's not worth losing your temper because of them.
I sense that you care about mathematics more than about always "being right."
What do you mean? Math is about being right, no?
Here's a good start to learn some LaTeX .
This Terence Tao's good math ? Way too much advanced math there. I understood like 0.000001% of it.
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@Pi Han Goh – There is a (big) difference between being right (as in correct) and the relentless insistence that one's own solution is the best (or even only) way to think about a problem, what we call "Besserwisserei" oder "Rechthaberei" in German. I need to learn to avoid disputes with these kind of guys... just let it go... it brings nothing.
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@Otto Bretscher – Anyway, thanks for the dialog. Comrade : )
In general ∫ 0 ∞ x sin 2 n − 1 d x = 2 2 n − 1 π k = 0 ∑ n − 1 ( − 1 ) k + n − 1 ( k 2 n − 1 ) , n ∈ N . Sorry, no proof given. This is formula from old college assignment. Anyway, try this: Insane Integral .
# Q . E . D . #
Hi Tunk! :)
Can you please share a link which shows the proof of your formula?
Thanks!
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I didn't take this formula from any other website. It's an old stuff from my college assignment. You can get this formula by calculating: I n = ∫ 0 ∞ x sin 2 n − 1 d x . Just take n = 1 , 2 and 3 then you can generalize it.
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I didn't mean that you took the formula somewhere from internet. I asked if there is a proof for this discussed somewhere. :)
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@Pranav Arora – You might be kidding me Pranav!? I'm absolutely sure that you know how to derive this formula. You've already proven it above! :)
How if I make problem like this:
∫ 0 ∞ x 4 sin 8 x d x .
Can you answer it? :D
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@Tunk-Fey Ariawan – You can post the solution here
@Tunk-Fey Ariawan – Woops, I see it now, thanks Tunk! :)
For the integral you gave me, I need some time to figure it out.
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We are given the following:
∫ 0 ∞ 2 i x e i x − e − i x d x = 2 π ( ∗ )
We have to find the value of
∫ 0 ∞ 2 9 i x ( e i x − e − i x ) 9 d x
Expand the numerator using Binomial theorem to get:
( e i x − e − i x ) 9 = ( 0 9 ) e i 9 x − ( 1 9 ) e i 7 x + ( 2 9 ) e i 5 x − ( 3 9 ) e i 3 x + ( 4 9 ) e i x − ( 5 9 ) e − i x + ( 6 9 ) e − i 3 x − ( 7 9 ) e − i 5 x + ( 8 9 ) e − i 7 x − ( 9 9 ) e − i 9 x
⇒ ( e i x − e − i x ) 9 = ( 0 9 ) ( e i 9 x − e − i 9 x ) − ( 1 9 ) ( e i 7 x − e − i 7 x ) + ( 2 9 ) ( e i 5 x − e − i 5 x ) − ( 3 9 ) ( e i 3 x − e − i 3 x ) + ( 4 9 ) ( e i x − e − i x )
When the above is substituted in the integral we have to evaluate, we get the following kind of integral:
∫ 0 ∞ x e i n x − e − i n x d x
To evaluate the above, use the substitution n x = t and using ( ∗ ) , we get, i π . Hence,
∫ 0 ∞ 2 9 i x ( e i x − e − i x ) 9 d x = 2 9 i 1 ( ( 0 9 ) − ( 1 9 ) + ( 2 9 ) − ( 3 9 ) + ( 4 9 ) ) ( i π ) = 2 9 π ( 7 0 )
⇒ ∫ 0 ∞ 2 9 i x ( e i x − e − i x ) 9 d x = 2 5 6 3 5 π