Pressure in a tapered pipe

A non-viscous fluid flows steadily in the tapered, horizontal pipe shown above. At which point is the pressure greatest, A \mathbf{A} or B \mathbf{B} ?

A \mathbf{A} , near the broad end B \mathbf{B} , near the narrow end Same at both A \mathbf{A} and B \mathbf{B} Depends on the direction of the flow

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7 solutions

Marta Reece
Jun 18, 2017

The fluid moves faster in the narrow tube. Energy stays the same, so when it moves slower, the pressure is higher.

Oh how I love it when people give SIMPLE answers!

William Huang - 3 years, 11 months ago

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From the distribution of upvotes, it would appear that this sentiment is in the minority. But it is certainly appreciated. Thank you.

Marta Reece - 3 years, 11 months ago

What if the water flows from B to A, shouldn't the water travel from higher pressure to lower pressure?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Regardless of the direction of the water flow, the pressure is determined more by the speed of the water than the direction or the size of the tube.

You can think of it like road traffic. When cars are going slower, they are closer together. When they hit an area where they can go fast, they speed up, increasing distance between themselves and the cars that are behind them still in the slow area. The faster the traffic, the less dense the traffic, or the less "pressure" there is. The particles in fluids act very much the same way.

Steven Mortensen - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Like this analogy

srinivas bakki - 3 years, 11 months ago

Do you mean that the density of water will change?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

I assumed that "flows steadily" meant at constant speed, does it actually mean constant volume per second?

Dan Ley - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Steady flow means that the conditions such as pressure and speed remain constant with time. This implies there is constant volume flow per second to prevent any accumulation of fluid in the pipe.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

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That explains things, thanks:)

Dan Ley - 3 years, 11 months ago

Except the question stated flows smoothly, and that could be interpreted as "constant velocity". Then what?

Joel Tolbert - 3 years, 11 months ago

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A liquid can not flow at a constant speed in a tapered pipe. So, that interpretation will be invalid.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

I agree with the solution, but would like to raise a concern. What if the flow was supersonic? A nozzle would act as a diffuser and vice-versa. I would argue that under supersonic conditions, point B has greater pressure.

Sino Bousmia - 3 years, 11 months ago

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I don't know much about the supersonic flows. But, is it a steady flow? If not, then can we actually define a stable pressure at any point in the liquid flow?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

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A supersonic flow can be steady. One big difference of supersonic flow is that a decrease of area actually decreases the velocity.

Sino Bousmia - 3 years, 11 months ago

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@Sino Bousmia How will the equation of continuity be valid in that case?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

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@Rohit Gupta If we take air going at 0.3 Mach or faster, the assumption of incompressibility is no longer valid. At supersonic speeds, shock wave (drastic pressure change) happen, thus explaining how continuity is respected. The flow would no longer be steady though!

Sino Bousmia - 3 years, 11 months ago

This is extremely vague. Flows can be super/hyper sonic. I would have loved if the question was steered in that direction. I think this question is more 'high school' than its posed to be.

Arjun Darbha - 3 years, 9 months ago
Shourya Pandey
Jun 18, 2017

I have taken this from Wikipedia for quick reference.

The Bernoulli's principle states that an increase in the speed of a fluid occurs simultaneously with a decrease in pressure or a decrease in the fluid's potential energy. The simple form of Bernoulli's equation is valid for incompressible flows.

A common form of Bernoulli's equation, valid at any arbitrary point along a streamline, is:

v 2 2 + g h + p ρ = \frac{v^2}{2} + gh + \frac{p}{\rho} = constant, where

v v is the fluid flow speed at a point on a streamline,

g g is the acceleration due to gravity,

h h is the elevation of the point above a reference plane, with the positive z-direction pointing upward – so in the direction opposite to the gravitational acceleration,

p p is the pressure at the chosen point, and

ρ \rho is the density of the fluid at all points in the fluid.

As points A A and B B have the same height h , h, we can ignore the g h gh terms on either side. Also, from continuity equation ( A 1 v 1 = A 2 v 2 A_1v_1 = A_2v_2 ), because the cross-sectional area at A A is greater, the velocity is lower. So v A < v B v_A < v_B . Thus it follows from Bernoulli's equation, that P A > P B \boxed{P_A > P_B} .

The Answer given byBrilliant is incorrect, Energy and Flow is constant, for the flow to be constant the only way that can happen is the velocity at the narrow end has to increase. Velocity increases to compensate for the smaller area . So if the velocity is higher the pressure component v2/2g of the energy is higher. That's exactly how your garden hose water nozzle works.

Paolo Giammarco - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Why is the pressure component v 2 2 g \frac{v^2}{2g} ? According to Bernoulli's equation given in the solution, I think it should be p ρ \frac{p}{\rho} .

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Yes, I agree with pranshu, v 2 2 g \frac{v^2}{2g} is kinetic energy component.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

It at no point states in the question that the fluid is incompressible, just non-viscous, so how do you justify using Bernoulli's equation for incompressible fluid? Also as a reductio ad absurdam argument, will the pressure in this pipe continue to rise towards infinity as the width also rises towards infinity?

Peter Board - 3 years, 11 months ago

If the fluid flows from B to A the will be release of pressure if the taper angle is high

Tapan Roy - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Good point, it could be possible that the flow does not remain streamline if the angle is large. Bernoulli's principle would not be applicable in that case.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

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In that case, the pressure at a point will not be well defined due to turbulent nature of the flow.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago
Gian Carlo
Jun 19, 2017

If flow is constant then

A × v = c o n s t a n t A\times v=constant

where A A is the area of the pipe's section at a point of the pipe and v v is the speed of the fluid at that point. Therefore near the broad end the speed is at its minimum.

According to Bernoullli's law:

p + δ g h + δ v 2 2 = c o n s t a n t p+\delta gh+\frac{\delta v^{2}}{2}=constant

where p p is the pressure of the fluid in that certain point, δ \delta is the density of the fluid, g g is gravitational acceleration, v v is the speed of the fluid in that certain point and h h is the height. Since, as said before, speed is at its minimum in point A, and the pipe is level, pressure is at its maximum at point A \boxed{A}

Fluid flows from high pressure to low pressure. If the fluid is flowing left to right, A will have the highest pressure. If the fluid is flowing right to left, B will have the highest pressure. Q = k dP^0.5 The answer must be D, not A.

Peter Dyer - 3 years, 11 months ago

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I think fluid can move from low pressure to high pressure, but not on their own. What if we have a pump that transports water from low pressure to high pressure?

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

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The purpose of such a pump would be to increase the lower pressure to a pressure that exceeded the higher pressure. Flow follows a pressure drop, there is no such thing as flow from low pressure to high pressure if all other forms potential transport phenomena are neglected (natural convection, osmosis, electroendosmosis, electrophoresis, etc.)

The answer to the question should be D.

Jeff Sloan - 3 years, 11 months ago

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@Jeff Sloan Sorry, my example was not accurate. I will phrase my point differently:

Fluids accelerate in the direction of "higher pressure to lower pressure" and not necessarily move from higher pressure to lower pressure. This is analogous to "a particle accelerates in the direction of net force on it, it doesn't necessarily moves in that direction".

In this case, if flow is from A to B, then fluid speeds up. If flow is from B to A, then fluid slows down. In both cases, the acceleration is in the direction "from A to B", which means A is at a higher pressure than B.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

Peter Dyer is correct. It depends on the direction of flow. As the system is horizontal, there is no elevational component and assuming the flowrate is well below supersonic, there is only a frictional component. This causes pressure to decrease in the direction of flow. The original reasoning ignores the effect of wall friction.

Adrian Ferramosca - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Why does it depend on the direction of flow? It looks like Bernoulli's equation is symmetric and does not depend on the direction.

The problem statement says that the fluid is non-viscous, so there wouldn't be any friction.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

Flow indicated pressure or force grime one end. The level of the points therefore have nothing to do with it and it's a question of Hydraulics. Your reasoning is flawed.

Paul Bumgardner - 3 years, 11 months ago

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I think he meant that h h is same at both points, so we can ignore the term δ g h \delta gh .

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

A convergent Venturi is especially useful in gas turbine engine design; because of the nature of a fluid within a system to flow in the path of least resistance (in this case compressed air or exhaust gas) this prevents a reverse of fluid direction along axis of flow due to the physical barrier created by the high pressure.

Christopher Claspille - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Nice, I didn't know that before :) We can prevent the reverse flow just by increasing the diameter of the pipe.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

This is so simple the smart guys miss it. It definitely depends on the direction of flow. In the event of no flow then point A because there is a discreet difference in the height of the fluid between point A and B. Also, fluid will flow only from a point of higher pressure to a point of lower pressure. What other proof do you need.

Bud McGuire - 3 years, 11 months ago

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The event of no flow is a special case where pressure at both points becomes equal. If the fluid is moving with positive speed, then there will be a pressure difference, but it won't depend on direction of flow. This is because fluids don't necessarily flow from higher pressure to lower pressure. Please read my explanation in the comment to Jeff Sloan above.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago
Chris Fox
Jun 23, 2017

The reason for this is the Bernoulli effect, but to think about it another way, the fluid is moving faster at B than at A, so it must have more pressure behind it than in front of it to allow it to accelerate.

What if the water is flowing from B to A? Will the answer remain the same?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Then the water will be slowing down as it moves from B to A (i.e. accelerating backwards towards B), so there would still need to be higher pressure at A than at B.

Chris Fox - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Agreed! Thanks.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago
Zaid Iqbal
Jun 22, 2017

Ac to bernouli where speed is high pressure is low Also ac to eq of cont for ideal fluid, where small cross section area speed is high So at point A greater the cross section area smaller will be speed and high will be pressure

Why does pressure decreases with increase in speed? Shouldn't it be the opposite as if the molecules move faster they will collide harder to create a greater pressure?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago
Krishna Deb
Jun 20, 2017

Put simply, the total energy of inflow and outflow has to be the same.

People have confused "pressure" for "velocity of flow" which is why the 14% who were forced to study Bernoulli's principle (stated in many other answers) got the correct option, A.

Irrespective of the direction of flow, because the the water has to flow faster at B due to the taper, pressure energy is less at B and kinetic energy is more.

That's it, really.

Shouldn't the water flow from high pressure to lower pressure?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

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The question says that water flows steadily, which means it cannot choose the direction of it's flow, it's being rushed into the pipe and rushed out and that's all we have to work with.

What you said is correct, though, water does flow from higher potential to lower potential if no significant force acts on it other than gravity.

Krishna Deb - 3 years, 11 months ago

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My concern was we don't know the outlet or inlet for the water flow. Do the answer depend on the location of outlet and inlet?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

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@Rohit Gupta No it doesn't, outlet and inlet determines the direction of flow and nothing else. All laws and energy principles provide the same solution in both cases.

Krishna Deb - 3 years, 11 months ago

Irrespective of the magnitude of the flow? What if the flow is zero?

Jeremy Laidman - 3 years, 11 months ago

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If the water is not flowing then the same level should have equal pressure.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago

The flow can't be zero anyway, because the question itself says water is flowing steadily, however in the case of it actually being zero, pressure should be uniform everywhere.

The key point here is to think in terms of energy and not in terms of velocity or direction of flow.

Krishna Deb - 3 years, 11 months ago
Nacer Jaafar
Jun 18, 2017

Just apply Bernouilli's theorem, pB - pA < 0

Is there an intuitive reason for why pressure is more at A compared to B? I thought that since pipe is narrower at B, water would be more compressed by the sides and pressure would be greater.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 11 months ago

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