Sin is the root of all evil

Calculus Level 3

lim x 0 + sin ( x ) + sin ( x ) + sin ( x ) + x = ? \large \lim_{x \to 0^+} \dfrac{\sqrt{\sin (x) + \sqrt{\sin (x) + \sqrt{\sin (x) + \ldots }}}}{x} = \ ?

2 2 The limit goes to infinity 1 4 \frac 1 4 4 4 1 2 \frac 1 2

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3 solutions

Otto Bretscher
Apr 11, 2015

The limit fails to exist because the numerator is undefined for negative x x with π < x < 0 -\pi<x<0 .

Out of curiosity, let's find the single-sided limit, for positive x. Define f ( x ) = sin x + ( . . . ) f(x)=\sqrt{\sin{x}+\sqrt(...)} for 0 < x < π 0<x<\pi . Letting f ( x ) = sin x + f ( x ) f(x)=\sqrt{\sin{x}+f(x)} we find that f ( x ) = 1 + 1 + 4 sin x 2 f(x)=\frac{1+\sqrt{1+4\sin{x}}}{2} . Now lim x 0 + f ( x ) x = \lim_{x\to{0^+}}\frac{f(x)}{x}=\infty since the numerator goes to 1 and the denominator goes to 0.

But I think it should be f(x)=[1 - sqrt(1+4sinx)]/2 because putting x=0 in sqrt(sinx+sqrt(sinx+sqrt(......... gives you 0 whereas putting x=0 in your f(x) gives 1

Hamza Mahmood - 6 years, 2 months ago

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It's true that f ( 0 ) = 0 f(0)=0 , but lim x 0 + f ( x ) = 1 \lim_{x\to0^+}f(x)=1 ; nobody claimed that f ( x ) f(x) is continuous at x = 0 x=0 . Your formula for f ( x ) f(x) gives negative values for small positive x x , which is impossible for a (nested) square root.

Otto Bretscher - 6 years, 2 months ago

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I don't understand, what do you mean about negative here? Please explain more. I don't see any negative value from his formula for f(x).

Hafizh Ahsan Permana - 6 years, 2 months ago

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@Hafizh Ahsan Permana 1 1 + 4 sin x 2 \frac{1-\sqrt{1+4\sin{x}}}{2} is negative for 0 < x < π 0<x<\pi , but f ( x ) f(x) cannot be negative, being a square root. Thats why we have f ( x ) = 1 + 1 + 4 sin x 2 f(x)=\frac{1+\sqrt{1+4\sin{x}}}{2} for 0 < x < π 0<x<\pi .

Otto Bretscher - 6 years, 2 months ago

A bit agree to Hamza. Why do we use

f ( x ) = [ 1 + s q r t ( 1 + 4 s i n x ) ] / 2 f(x)=[1 + sqrt(1+4sinx)]/2

Not f ( x ) = [ 1 s q r t ( 1 + 4 s i n x ) ] / 2 f(x)=[1 - sqrt(1+4sinx)]/2

Well the result is the same at the end. The limit is does'nt exist. Correct me if i wrong.

Hafizh Ahsan Permana - 6 years, 2 months ago

First step,may be, is just to verify this expression s i n x + s i n x + s i n x . . . \sqrt{sinx+\sqrt{sinx+\sqrt{sinx...}}} let y = s i n x + s i n x + s i n x . . . = s i n x + y y=\sqrt{sinx+\sqrt{sinx+\sqrt{sinx...}}}=\sqrt{sinx+y} then y = 1 + 1 + 4 s i n x 2 1 + s i n x y=\frac{1+\sqrt{1+4sinx}}{2}\approx1+sinx So, the value is l i m x > 0 s i n x + s i n x + s i n x . . . x = 1 + s i n x x lim_{x->0}\frac{\sqrt{sinx+\sqrt{sinx+\sqrt{sinx...}}}}{x}=\frac{1+sinx}{x} since x approach zero from both side so, the limit does not exist.

Moderator note:

Nice! Although it's better to explain why 1 + 1 + 4 sin x 2 1 + sin x \frac {1 + \sqrt {1+ 4 \sin x} }{2} \approx 1 + \sin x for x 0 x \approx 0 .

Ok i'll explain that part

1 + ( 1 + 4 s i n x ) 1 2 2 \displaystyle \dfrac{1 + (1 + 4sinx)^{\frac{1}{2}}}{2}

Since x 0 s i n x 0 x \to 0 \implies sinx \to 0

We can apply binomial theorem here

( 1 + x ) n = 1 + n x , x 1 (1 + x)^n = 1 + nx, x \ll 1

Our equation reduces to

1 + ( 1 + 4 2 s i n x ) 2 = 1 + s i n x \displaystyle \dfrac{1 + ( 1 + \frac{4}{2} sinx)}{2} = 1 + sinx

Krishna Sharma - 6 years, 2 months ago

1/0 isn't it undefined?

Hafizh Ahsan Permana - 6 years, 2 months ago
Allu Phanindra
Jan 1, 2015

lim x->0+ (1/x)=+infinity; lim x->0- (1/x)= -infinity; therefore limit at x=0 is does not exist for the given function

I think there's an error in your reasoning, but I can't see your sheet clearly.

I agree with you up to the line y^2 - y - sin(x) = 0.

From here, the quadratic formula should yield y = (1/2)(-1 +/- sqrt(1 + 4*sin(x))), where we must take the plus sign since y must be positive.

So y = -1/2 + (1/2)(1 + 4*sin(x)) = sin(x) + o(x) using the series expansion for the square root.

The desired limit is 1 by my reckoning.

Curious to know if I missed anything.

DANIEL SWEARINGEN - 6 years, 2 months ago

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You are making a trivial sign error: It's y = 1 2 + . . . y=\frac{1}{2}+... by the quadratic formula.

Otto Bretscher - 6 years, 2 months ago

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You're right, Otto.

DANIEL SWEARINGEN - 6 years, 2 months ago

How can you claim that lim x 0 . . . . = \lim_{x\to{0^-}}.... = -\infty ? The numerator is undefined in that case!

Otto Bretscher - 6 years, 2 months ago

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