Put your money where your mouth is

Logic Level 3

There are 3 people: Taylor, Ellinor, and McGregor. They each have a distinct favorite natural number 1, 2 or 3 and also a distinct Roman numeral I , I I \rm{I}, \rm{II} or I I I \rm{III} , but not necessarily in that order.

Each person only knew what their favorite numbers are and did not know what the others' favorite numbers are. They each was informed these three facts:

  • The person whose favorite natural number is 1 doesn't like the Roman letter I I I \rm{III} .

  • Exactly one of these three individuals has the same favorite Roman numeral and natural number.

  • The person whose favorite Roman number is I I \rm{II} doesn't like the number 3.

However, none of them are still able to figure out the other people's favorite numbers.

Taylor then makes the claim: "This is ridiculous! These three facts are not helpful at all. I can't determine what everyone's favorite numbers are."

Ellinor (whose first name is Andrew) then shouted: "After Taylor made that claim, I finally knew everyone's number!"

What is Taylor's favorite Roman numeral?

Note: Assume all of them are perfectly logical.


Inspiration .

I \rm{I} I I I \rm{III} I I \rm{II}

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1 solution

Pi Han Goh
Feb 14, 2016

This problem is best solved using elimination grids . Let's start by drawing out the grid of the numbers versus the roman numerals:

Roman Number 1 2 3 I I I I I I \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Roman\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \rm{I} & & & \\ \hline \rm{II} & & & \\ \hline \rm{III} & & & \\ \hline \end{array}

From the first and third points:

The person whose favorite natural number is 1 don't like the roman letter I I I \rm{III} , and

The person whose favorite roman number is I I \rm{II} don't like the number 3.

Adding these two points into the grid gives us

Roman Number 1 2 3 I I I × I I I × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Roman\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \rm{I} & & & \\ \hline \rm{II} & & & \times \\ \hline \rm{III} & \times & & \\ \hline \end{array}

From the second point: "Exactly one of these 3 people have the same favorite roman numeral and natural number."

So either one of these must be true only:
Case one : The person who likes the roman numeral I \rm{I} also likes the natural number 1.
Case two : The person who likes the roman numeral I I \rm{II} also likes the natural number 2.
Case three : The person who likes the roman numeral I I I \rm{III} also likes the natural number 3.

Suppose it's case one, then updating the grid gives us:

Roman Number 1 2 3 I × × I I × × I I I × Roman Number 1 2 3 I × × I I × × I I I × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Roman\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \rm{I} & \checkmark & \times & \times \\ \hline \rm{II} & \times & & \times \\ \hline \rm{III} & \times & & \\ \hline \end{array} \quad\Rightarrow \quad \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Roman\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \rm{I} & \checkmark & \times & \times \\ \hline \rm{II} & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline \rm{III} & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array}

However, this tells us that the person who likes the roman numeral I I \rm{II} also likes the number 2, which is a contradiction. Thus case one is not allowed.

Similarly, we can work our way to show that case two can't be true as well:

Roman Number 1 2 3 I × I I × × I I I × × Roman Number 1 2 3 I × × I I × × I I I × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Roman\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \rm{I} & & \times & \\ \hline \rm{II} & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline \rm{III} & \times & \times & \\ \hline \end{array} \quad\Rightarrow \quad \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Roman\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \rm{I} & \checkmark & \times & \times \\ \hline \rm{II} & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline \rm{III} & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array}

What's left to confirm is to check wheter case three works or not, and the illustration in the grid below does agree with all the conditions.

Roman Number 1 2 3 I × I I × I I I × × Roman Number 1 2 3 I × × I I × × I I I × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Roman\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \rm{I} & & & \times \\ \hline \rm{II} & & & \times \\ \hline \rm{III} & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array} \quad\Rightarrow \quad \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Roman\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \rm{I} & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline \rm{II} & \checkmark & \times & \times \\ \hline \rm{III} & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array}

From here, we can improve the second point to: Exactly one of these 3 people have the favorite roman numeral of I I I \rm{III} and favorite natural number of 3. And because everyone are all perfectly rational, they are able to figure out this very fact as well. And because Taylor made the claim that he still can't solve it, this means that he is in the position where there no other informations given to him even after knowing that exactly one of these 3 people have the favorite roman numeral of I I I \rm{III} and favorite natural number of 3. This can only mean that Taylor himself whose favorite numbers are both these numbers. Constructing the grids for the people versus the favorite numbers gives us:

Name Number 1 2 3 Ellinor × Taylor × × McGregor × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Name\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \text{Ellinor} & & & \times \\ \hline \text{Taylor} & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \text{McGregor} & & & \times \\ \hline \end{array}

And because everyone knows their own favorite number, (Andrew) Ellinor would have known his own number and also Taylor's number, thus he is able to complete the grid (as shown below).

Name Number 1 2 3 Ellinor × × Taylor × × McGregor × × or Name Number 1 2 3 Ellinor × × Taylor × × McGregor × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Name\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \text{Ellinor} & \checkmark & \times & \times \\ \hline \text{Taylor} & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \text{McGregor} & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline \end{array} \quad \text{or} \quad \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | } \hline \text{Name\ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 \\ \hline \text{Ellinor} & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline \text{Taylor} & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \text{McGregor} & \checkmark & \times & \times \\ \hline \end{array}

Regardless of whether Ellinor's favorite number is 1 or 2, he is able to figure out Taylor's 2 favorite number, and thus is able to figure out the remaining possible favorite numbers from McGregor. Hence, the answer is indeed I I I \boxed{\rm{III}} .

Moderator note:

Great solution! Well organized and explained.

@Aloysius Ng , do you like this solution? ;)

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 4 months ago

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I'm not going to write a solution for this problem since you already did... And yah, of course i do (although the format looks very similar. *cough cough*)

Aloysius Ng - 5 years, 4 months ago

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Try this too ! Awaiting your solution~ =D

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 3 months ago

I agree with Aloisius

Hasmik Garyaka - 2 years, 5 months ago

I did not get it , I understood till the roman numeral vs natural number complete grid , but from that , how can we say that Taylor(if he likes 3) learnt nothing ? He did learn that he person who likes 1 likes II and 2 likes I , which is new information for him.

And everyone gained just this much information ,

person who liked 2 , now knows that the person who likes 1 likes II and who likes 3 likes III .

savit gupta - 5 years, 1 month ago

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He learnt nothing as in "he can't determine everyone's exact favorite numbers."

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 1 month ago

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Thx for the reply !

But even if he liked 1(and II) how would he have known the other person's numbers ?

savit gupta - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Savit Gupta Who is "he"? Taylor?

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Pi Han Goh Um yes ... Sry for not making it clear

savit gupta - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Savit Gupta You misinterpreted my solution. My solution clearly shows that Taylor's favorite numerical number must be 3 only.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Pi Han Goh "And because Taylor made the claim that he still can't solve it, this means that he is in the position where there no other informations given to him even after knowing that exactly one of these 3 people have the favorite roman numeral of and favorite natural number of 3. This can only mean that Taylor himself whose favorite numbers are both these numbers. "

If Taylor for Example liked 1 , II , he would have still said the exact same statement that he doesn't know what everyone's favourite numbers are .

Just explain to me how he might have made a different statement of he liked 1 , II

Thx a lot for taking the time of replying .

savit gupta - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Savit Gupta I don't understand your question. Are you saying that I made the assumption that Taylor liked the number 3 only, And I didn't rigorously proved it yet? Because I've already demonstrated that Taylor MUST like the number 3 only.

I would have answered your question assuming that the event of "Taylor might have liked the numbers 1 and II" is possible.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Pi Han Goh Precisely , i belive that you haven't rigoursly proved that Taylor likes 3 .

I would really appreciate it if you could prove why he can't like 1 (and II )

savit gupta - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Savit Gupta If you think that I haven't proved it rigorously, please give me an alternative solution to this question, or explain which part of my solution is flawed. And we'll discuss it from there.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Pi Han Goh I belive that the question itself is flawed as there is inadequate information , there is no reason to conclude that Taylor like 3 & III

Case 1 Taylor likes 3 & III

He has learnt that the person who likes 1 ,likes II and NOT I

But that is inadequate information to know which person likes 1, so he will say that

"This is ridiculous! These three facts are not helpful at all. I can't determine what everyone's favorite numbers are."

Case 2 Taylor likes 1 & II

He has learnt that the person who likes 3, likes III and NOT I

But that is inadequate information to know which person likes 2, so he will say that

"This is ridiculous! These three facts are not helpful at all. I can't determine what everyone's favorite numbers are."

Case 3 Taylor likes 2 & I

He has learnt that the person who likes 1 , likes II and NOT III

But that is inadequate information to know which person likes 1, so he will say that

"This is ridiculous! These three facts are not helpful at all. I can't determine what everyone's favorite numbers are."

As you can see that he will make the same statement in all of these 3 cases , thus Elinor will not be able to deduce any information .

I also apologise for my inability to explain properly, I am not used to explaining by any medium other than talking .

savit gupta - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Savit Gupta Give me a few days to reply. I can't seem to pinpoint where exactly you lost me.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 1 month ago

@Savit Gupta Rebuttal for Case 1, Case 2 and Case 3: You forgot to account for the condition "Exactly one of these three individuals has the same favorite Roman numeral and natural number.".

So your entire argument is invalid.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 1 month ago

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