Quadratic with a Repeated Root

Algebra Level 4

How many ordered triples of integers ( a , b , c ) (a, b, c) are there, such that a , b a, b and c c are integers from 1 to 10 inclusive, and the quadratic function f ( x ) = a x 2 + b x + c f(x) = ax^2 + bx + c has a repeated root?


The answer is 11.

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15 solutions

Fengyu Seah
Oct 21, 2013

In order to have a repeated root, b 2 4 a c b^2-4ac must be equals to 0 0 . Therefore, b 2 4 = a c \frac{b^2}{4}=ac and b 2 b^2 must be divisible by 4 4 . Therefore, b b must be even.

When b = 10 b = 10 , a c = 1 0 2 4 = 25 ac=\frac{10^2}{4}=25 . So the only possible permutation is ( 5 , 10 , 5 ) (5, 10, 5) .

When b = 8 b = 8 , a c = 8 2 4 = 16 ac=\frac{8^2}{4}=16 . Therefore, the ordered pair ( a , c ) (a,c) can be: ( 4 , 4 ) (4,4) , ( 2 , 8 ) (2,8) and ( 8 , 2 ) (8,2) . There are thus 3 possible ordered triplets.

When b = 6 b = 6 , a c = 6 2 4 = 9 ac=\frac{6^2}{4}=9 . Therefore, the ordered pair ( a , c ) (a,c) can be: ( 3 , 3 ) (3,3) , ( 1 , 9 ) (1,9) and ( 9 , 1 ) (9,1) . There are thus 3 possible ordered triplets.

When b = 4 b = 4 , a c = 4 2 4 = 4 ac=\frac{4^2}{4}=4 . Therefore, the ordered pair ( a , c ) (a,c) can be: ( 2 , 2 ) (2,2) , ( 1 , 4 ) (1,4) , and ( 4 , 1 ) (4,1) . There are thus 3 possible ordered triplets.

When b = 2 b = 2 , a c = 2 2 4 = 1 ac=\frac{2^2}{4}=1 . So the only possible permutation is ( 1 , 2 , 1 ) (1, 2, 1) .

Therefore, there are, in total, 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 1 = 11 1+3+3+3+1=11 ordered triples.

i like it....,but the thing is that the question would have mentioned that only positive triples are needed..but i like your way of solving......thank you

Suvadip Sana - 7 years, 7 months ago

when b=10, why can we not take (1.10,25) and (25,10,1) ordered triplets?

vineet samant - 7 years, 7 months ago

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Because a, b and c should be between 1 and 10 inclusive. First, I got 15 triplets. But, later, noticed that I also made the same mistake. I had to exclude the triplets that include a number greater than 10.

Abdulkasim Akhmedov - 7 years, 7 months ago
Michael Tang
Oct 23, 2013

For the quadratic to have a repeated root, the discriminant must equal 0 , 0, that is, we must have b 2 4 a c = 0 , b^2-4ac = 0, or

b 2 = 4 a c . b^2=4ac.

From this we see that b b must be even, and we take cases:

  • b = 2 b = 2 gives a c = 1 , ac = 1, so a = c = 1 a=c=1 for one possibility.

  • b = 4 b=4 gives a c = 4 , ac = 4, so ( a , c ) = ( 1 , 4 ) , ( 2 , 2 ) , ( 4 , 1 ) , (a,c) = (1,4), (2,2), (4,1), for three possibilities.

  • b = 6 b = 6 gives a c = 9 , ac = 9, so ( a , c ) = ( 1 , 9 ) , ( 3 , 3 ) , ( 9 , 1 ) , (a,c) = (1,9), (3,3), (9,1), for three more possibilities.

  • b = 8 b = 8 gives a c = 16 , ac = 16, and since a , c 10 , a, c\le 10, the only pairs are ( a , c ) = ( 2 , 8 ) , ( 4 , 4 ) , ( 8 , 2 ) , (a,c) = (2,8), (4, 4), (8, 2), for three more possibilities.

  • b = 10 b = 10 gives a c = 25 , ac = 25, so the only pair is a = c = 5. a=c=5.

In total, there are 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 1 = 11 1+3+3+3+1 = \boxed{11} ordered triples.

Very good, sir MSTang.

William Cui - 7 years, 7 months ago

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Wait, he was MSTang all long?!

Steven Lee - 7 years, 7 months ago

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Wait, who are you!?

Michael Tang - 7 years, 7 months ago

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@Michael Tang His status says 'sh4931 on AoPS'

William Cui - 7 years, 7 months ago

Hmm what does it look like ;-)

William Cui - 7 years, 7 months ago

But how are all these triplets 'ordered'?

Phalguni Shah - 7 years, 7 months ago

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In the sense that the order of a,b,c matters ((2,1,1) differs from (1,2,1)). It's not very important - don't get caught up in my wording.

Michael Tang - 7 years, 7 months ago

when b=10, why can we not take (1.10,25) and (25,10,1) ordered triplets?

vineet samant - 7 years, 7 months ago

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ac=25, and both are less than or equal to 10.

Michael Tang - 7 years, 7 months ago

If equation has repeating, then it is said to have equal roots.

Equal Roots in turn means - Discriminant = 0.

b 2 4 a c \ b^{2} - 4ac = 0

Implies,

b 2 \ b^{2} = 4ac

Minimum value of b is 2,

which implies,

4 = 4 a c \ 4 = 4ac

This gives us one ordered triple = (1 , 2 , 1)

Then another condition arises where b \ b is even only.

Now b = 4,

4 = a c \ ac

Cases are a \ a = 1 , 2 , 4 and c \ c = 4 , 2 , 1 respectively .

Now we get 3 more triples, they being: (1 , 4 , 4) , (2 , 4 , 2) , (4 , 4, 1)

Now b \ b = 6,

9 = a c \ 9 = ac

Now we get 3 more, a \ a = 1 , 3 , 9 and c \ c = 9 , 3 , 1 respectively

The triples are: (1 , 6 , 9) , (3 , 6 , 3) , (9 , 6 , 1)

Now b \ b = 8,

Three more: (2 , 8 , 8) , (4 , 8 , 4) , (8 , 8 , 2)

Now b \ b = 10 (max)

One Triple arises:

(5 , 10 , 5)

Totally 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 1 \ 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 1 = 11 \ 11

Why is "Minimum value of b b is 2"?

It is important to state and explain why b b must be even. You used it when saying "Then another condition arises where b b is even only", but didn't justify making this assumption.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 7 months ago

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what is quartic polymomial

Akshay Sharma - 5 years, 5 months ago

when b=10, why can we not take (1.10,25) and (25,10,1) ordered triplets?

vineet samant - 7 years, 7 months ago

If a and c are integers then Minimum value of b^{2} is 4 only. This implies b is 2 only because b lies between 1 to 10 according to the question.

Vishwak Srinivasan - 6 years, 8 months ago

We cannot take (25,10,1) or (1,10,25) because a and c are in the set of integers from 1 to 10.

Vishwak Srinivasan - 6 years, 8 months ago
Kiran K
Oct 21, 2013

If it should have a repeated root then b^2-4 a c=0 ->b^2=4ac ->b=2 sqrt(a c). sqrt(a c) is an integer only when a c=1,4,9,16,25(above 25 you will get b>10).So 1)If a c=1,(1,2,1) 2)If a c=4 (2,4,2),(4,4,1),(1,4,4) 3)If a c=9 (9,6,1),(1,6,9),(3,6,3) 4)If a c=16 (4,8,4),(2,8,8),(8,8,2) 5)If a*c=25 (5,10,5) So total number of solutions=11

Jan J.
Oct 21, 2013

We are given b 2 = 4 a c b^2 = 4ac , clearly 2 b 2 \mid b , now consider five cases to get following triplets ( a , b , c ) (a,b,c) b = 2 a c = 1 : ( 1 , 2 , 1 ) b = 4 a c = 4 : ( 1 , 4 , 4 ) , ( 4 , 4 , 1 ) , ( 2 , 4 , 2 ) b = 6 a c = 9 : ( 1 , 6 , 9 ) , ( 9 , 6 , 1 ) , ( 3 , 6 , 3 ) b = 8 a c = 16 : ( 2 , 8 , 8 ) , ( 4 , 8 , 4 ) , ( 8 , 8 , 2 ) b = 10 a c = 25 : ( 5 , 10 , 5 ) b = 2 \Rightarrow ac = 1: (1,2,1) \\ b = 4 \Rightarrow ac = 4: (1,4,4), (4,4,1), (2,4,2) \\ b = 6 \Rightarrow ac = 9: (1,6,9), (9,6,1), (3,6,3) \\ b = 8 \Rightarrow ac = 16: (2,8,8), (4,8,4), (8,8,2) \\ b = 10 \Rightarrow ac = 25: (5,10,5)

Hence the number of triplets is 11 \boxed{11}

Sajan Kapil
Feb 2, 2014

b 2 4 a c = 0 b^{2}-4ac=0 hence the solution vector will be ( a b c ) = a ( 2 a c ) c (a b c)= a (2 \sqrt{ac}) c so the there will be 11 solution of the case like , a=1, c=2 and 9, a=2, c=2 and 8, a=3, c=3, a=4, c=4 and 9, a=5, c=5, a=6, c=6, a=7 c= nothing no solution here, a=8 c=2, a=9 c=1m, a=10 no solutio n hence total 11 solution

Case-working with the value of b b , which is even, also provides a safe and confident answer :)

Xuming Liang - 7 years, 3 months ago

how can c=9 and a=4...this gives b=12 right?

Saumitra Agrawal - 7 years, 3 months ago
Kksdk Kkk
Oct 20, 2013

1+2+2+1+1+2+1+1=11

For a root to be repeated, the determinant b 2 4 a c b^{2} - 4ac has to be zero. This means that 4 a c 4ac , with a and c integers, is a square. Since no integers allow 4 a c 4ac to be equal to the square of an odd integer, I counted a and c values that gave the square of any even integer up to 10. There was one ( a , b , c ) (a,b,c) triplet for 2 2 = 4 2^{2} = 4 , one triplet for 1 0 2 = 100 10^{2} = 100 , and three triplets each for the squares of the remaining even integers between one and ten. This added up to 11 triplets.

I think you meant the discriminant* instead of determinant =]

Muhammad Shariq - 7 years, 7 months ago
Calvin Lin Staff
Nov 30, 2015

For a quadratic to have a repeated root, the discriminant b 2 4 a c b^2 - 4ac must equal 0. This tells us that b = 2 a c b = 2 \sqrt{ac} . We consider the possible values for b b and look at all possible integer solutions for a a and c c . If b = 2 b = 2 then a c = 1 \sqrt{ac} = 1 , so ( a , c ) = ( 1 , 1 ) (a,c) = (1,1) . If b = 4 b = 4 , then a c = 2 \sqrt{ac} = 2 and so ( a , c ) = ( 1 , 4 ) , ( 2 , 2 ) , or ( 4 , 1 ) (a,c) = (1,4), (2,2), \mbox{ or } (4,1) . If b = 6 b = 6 then a c = 3 \sqrt{ac} = 3 and so ( a , c ) = ( 1 , 9 ) , ( 3 , 3 ) , or ( 9 , 1 ) (a,c) = (1,9), (3,3), \mbox{ or } (9,1) . If b = 8 b = 8 then a c = 4 \sqrt{ac} = 4 and so ( a , c ) = ( 1 , 16 ) , ( 2 , 8 ) , ( 4 , 4 ) , ( 8 , 2 ) , or ( 16 , 1 ) (a,c) = (1,16), (2,8), (4,4), (8,2), \mbox{ or } (16,1) . If b = 10 b = 10 then a c = 5 \sqrt{ac} = 5 and so ( a , c ) = ( 1 , 25 ) , ( 5 , 5 ) , or ( 25 , 1 ) (a,c) = (1,25), (5,5), \mbox{ or } (25,1) . This gives a total of 1 + 3 + 3 + 5 + 3 = 15 1 + 3 + 3 + 5 + 3 = 15 possible solutions. 4 of these solutions have values of a a or c c that is greater than 10, so these are not valid solutions. Thus, there are 11 possible triples ( a , b , c ) (a,b,c) .

Since b^2 - 4 a c = 0, and they are all positive integers 1 t0 10, inclusive.
b = 2 sqrt(a c) . Thus max a*c can be 25 only. Hence we take a=c with values 1 to 5....Five.
If a = 1, we can have c = 4 and c = 9. So also c = 1, a = 4 and 9........................................Four
If a = 2, we can have c = 8. So also c = 2, a = 8 ............................. .............. .......Two
a=3 , must have c = 3 we have done this, so also for a= 4, 5.
a = 6, 7, 10 have no matching c. a = 8, 9 has been covered. ........................................... 11 ........




Function has repeated roots when it's discriminant is 0 so: b 2 4 a b = 0 b 2 = 4 a b b^2-4ab=0 \rightarrow b^2=4ab we notice that b 2 b^2 must be divisible by 4 4 and that is when b = { 2 , 4 , 6 , 8 , 10 } b=\{ 2,4,6,8,10\}

  1. b = 2 4 = 4 a c a c = 1 a = 1 c = 1 b=2 \\ 4=4ac \\ ac=1 \\ a=1 \wedge c=1

  2. b = 4 16 = 4 a c a c = 4 ( a 1 = 2 c 1 = 2 ) ( a 2 = 4 c 2 = 1 ) ( a 3 = 1 c 3 = 4 ) b=4 \\ 16 =4ac \\ ac=4 \\ (a_1=2 \wedge c_1 =2) \lor (a_2=4 \wedge c_2=1) \lor (a_3=1 \wedge c_3=4)

  3. b = 6 36 = 4 a c a c = 9 ( a 1 = 3 c 1 = 3 ) ( a 2 = 9 c 2 = 1 ) ( a 3 = 1 c 3 = 9 ) b=6 \\ 36 =4ac \\ ac=9 \\ (a_1=3 \wedge c_1 = 3) \lor (a_2=9 \wedge c_2=1)\lor (a_3=1 \wedge c_3=9)

  4. b = 8 64 = 4 a c a c = 16 ( a 1 = 4 c 1 = 4 ) ( a 2 = 8 c 2 = 2 ) ( a 3 = 2 c 3 = 8 ) b=8 \\ 64 = 4ac \\ ac=16 \\ (a_1=4 \wedge c_1=4) \lor (a_2=8 \wedge c_2=2)\lor (a_3=2 \wedge c_3=8)

  5. b = 10 100 = 4 a c a c = 25 a = 5 b = 5 b=10 \\ 100=4ac \\ ac=25 \\ a=5 \wedge b=5

if we add all the solutions we got we get: 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 1 = 11 1+3+3+3+1=\boxed{11}

Daniel Nieuwerf
Oct 23, 2013

for values where the roots are equal the discriminant is 0. using discriminant, b^2-4ac, given it's = to 0 b^2=4ac now consider all values of b 1 to 10 only even numbers should be used as b cant be odd as odd numbers arent divisible by 4 2^2=4ac a and c only have one possible order 1,1 4^2=4ac a and c have 3 possible orders 4,1 1,4 2,2 6^2=4ac a and c have 3 values for this value of b 3,3 9,1 1,9 8^2=4ac a and c have 3 orders of a and c 4,4 8,2 2,8 10^2=4ac a and c only have one order 5,5 notice that 25,1 and 1,25 cant occur as a,b,c <11 and integer

1+3+3+3+1=11

11 solutions

Desmond Kan
Oct 23, 2013

For repeated roots, b^2 = 4ac. Since 4 | b^2, b can take values 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10. When b = 2, we have ac = 1. Therefore (a,b,c) = (1,2,1) When b = 4, we have ac = 4. Therefore (a,b,c) = (1,4,4) or (4,4,1) or (2,4,2) When b = 6, we have ac = 9. Therefore (a,b,c) = (1,6,9) or (9,6,1) or (3,6,3) When b = 8, we have ac = 16. Therefore (a,b,c) = (2,8,8) or (8,8,2) or (4,8,4) When b = 10, we have ac = 25. Therefore (a,b,c = (5,10,5)

We have exhausted all possible lists and therefore there are 11 such ordered triples.

Andres Fabrega
Oct 21, 2013

By the formula for the squares of quadratic roots, since both roots are equal: (-b+sqrt(b^2-4ac))/2a = (-b-sqrt(b^2-4ac))/2a. Therefore, b^2=4ac, so b=2sqrt(ac). So, since b is an integer, we only consider the cases when, choosing two numbers from 1 to 10 (ac), their product is a perfect square. We see that 11 numbers satisfy this, hence the answer is 11.

Snehdeep Arora
Oct 21, 2013

Condition for repeated roots: b 2 = 4 a c b^2 = 4ac There are total of 11 ordered pairs in the range [ 1 , 10 ] [1,10] satisfying this condition

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