A neutral soap bubble has a radius R , mass M , and the liquid making its boundary has surface tension σ . Now, this soap bubble is given a very small charge q . Afterwards , it begins oscillating radially(i.e. its radius oscillates with a particular frequency).The time period of these oscillations can be shown as T 0 = b P A R + c σ a π M , where P A is atmospheric pressure, and a , b , c are co-prime integers . Find the value of a + b + c .
Details and assumptions
∙ The gas inside the bubble is ideal and mono-atomic.
∙ No heat exchange takes place, i.e. the boundary is insulating.
This section requires Javascript.
You are seeing this because something didn't load right. We suggest you, (a) try
refreshing the page, (b) enabling javascript if it is disabled on your browser and,
finally, (c)
loading the
non-javascript version of this page
. We're sorry about the hassle.
I fully acknowledge it bro but it is not right to neglect that term ,, because you are not neglecting other x terms,, and only this term,,
note that your logic is that q^2 alone is not negligible,, but q^2(x) is
,,, but also note that while q^2(x) maybe small,, w is indepent of x, and only on its coefficient which has the contribution of q^2 which you are neglecting , thus indirectly the same as what i have done,, if we can neglect the q^2 that contributes to w, we can also neglect the q^2 as a whole
Log in to reply
I am neglecting q 2 x term wrt ( P A R + 1 6 σ ) x , but I can't neglect q 2 term, as that would mean that the mean position is the starting position which is wrong. But even if you neglect q 2 term too, as apparently you did, then still you get the same answer. :)
Log in to reply
I got it bro, i took equillibrium as my refference point (dR=0) wheres you took the initial position as the refference point, both are equivalent , :)
Very Nice Problem @Jatin Yadav , however I take Two chances , Since I got wrong calculation is 1st attempt !
Still Jatin Boss , I think That It Should Be Stated in Problem That Soap Bubble Has Conducting Surface , So that Charge Distribute Spherically , or You Should Specified That it is Hypothetical Bubble formed by some other Liquid So that we can Say That it is Conducting !
Good Problem Keep up the good work!!
Hey jatin is your age on brilliant a fake one because your profile shows you are in IIT-delhi.BTW nice problem
Log in to reply
Dude, you can find even a 14 year student there :P
The question and the given answer seems correct to me, wonder why some have reported it,
Here is my way,
At any instant the forces acting on an elementary surface of the bubble are
1) The pressure of the air trapped inside (it is important to mention here that the process is adiabatic as mentioned , so P1V1=P2V2 is not valid) Instead use adiabatic equation
2) The atmospheric pressure which i assumed to be constant
3) The electrostatic repulsion among the chosen surface and other surfaces( here we will neglect it at the end as q is very small so q^2 is smaller )( and it is logical since SHM approximation only holds if such is the case)
4) The inward pull of the surface tension trying to contract the bubble into a point , (again note the pressure corresponding to this is 4S/R)
Now let us choose an elementary surface area to operate with say Δ S
Now at any instant,, if the radius of the bubble is R, the force analsys will give
Δ S ( P i − R 4 S − P o + E ) = ( Δ M ) r ¨ = ρ Δ S r ¨ = 4 π R 2 M Δ S r ¨
It is important to know that you cannot ignore the changing density of the bubble, it matters
Now using
P V 3 5 = k
and also that initial pressure inside bubble (before giving charge) was
P o + R 4 S
we have
( ( P o + R o 4 S ) R 5 R 0 5 − R 4 S − P o + E ) = 4 π R 2 M r ¨
Now rearrangeing we get
( ( P o + R o 4 S ) R 3 R 0 5 − 1 4 S R − P o R 2 + E R 2 ) = 4 π M r ¨
Now consider the bubble in equillibrium,
ALso you can check that for small charge the original radius of the bubble is almost same as it was in equillibirum, we will use that later, for now let us use R e to denote it
so we have ( ( P o + R o 4 S ) R e 3 R 0 5 − 1 4 S R e − P o R e 2 + E e R e 2 ) = 0
Now subtracting both and using differential approximation
or f ( x + Δ x ) − f ( x ) = f 1 ( x ) Δ x
(it is valid since subtracting something by 0 doesnt change it)
we have
( − 3 ( P o + R o 4 S ) R e 4 R 0 5 − 1 4 S − 2 P o R e ) Δ R + Δ ( E R 2 ) = 4 π M r ¨
Now using the fact that the electrostatic repulsion expression contains a q^2 term which is negligible (you can check it easily yourself, i am not doing it since is is bulky and the equations are already bulky enough)
Also taking
R 0 ≃ R e
we have a simple SHM type equation
− ( 3 ( P o + R o 4 S ) R 0 + 4 S + 2 P o R 0 ) Δ R = 4 π M r ¨
Now collecting like terms and using 2pi/w=T we get
T = 5 P 0 R 0 + 1 6 S M π
thus answer 22,
hopefully i am correct
I got the same answer but reported it because I was not sure whether the electrostatic repulsion term could be neglected.
Log in to reply
I think it can be,, especially since it appears as a square and it has already been told that q is very small
Dude, the q 2 term is not to be neglected, The electrostatic force would result in the shift of mean position, not a change in time period.
Log in to reply
you will have to neglect the contribution of q^2 to w, sooner or later,,
@Ronak Agarwal please see
Log in to reply
@Mvs Saketh – I too neglected the charge term because it is given as too small as compared to the rest parameters.
what did you mean be two dot's on 'r' ? @MVS Saketh
Not difficult at all but it sure tests ur basics :) the given condition r adiabatic ..... use PV^(gamma)=constant . and proceed as the standard process to evaluate time period :)
Problem Loading...
Note Loading...
Set Loading...
Since the charge q is small, the amplitude of oscillations will be small. Let σ 0 = 4 π r 2 q be the surface charge density.
Consider the instant when the radius is r = R + x , where x < < R
Initial pressure = P 1 = P A + 4 R σ
Final pressure = P 2 = P 1 ( V 2 V 1 ) 5 / 3
Hence, P 2 = ( P A + 4 R σ ) ( R + x R ) 5 ≈ ( P A + R 4 σ ) ( 1 − 5 R x )
Now, consider a small area element d A with mass d M = 4 π r 2 M d A on the surface.
The electrostatic pressure is P E = 2 ϵ 0 σ 0 2
Now, clearly, the net pressure is :
P n e t = P 2 + P E − r 4 σ − P A
= − 5 P A R x − + ( R 4 σ ( 1 − R 5 x ) − R 4 σ ( 1 + R x ) + 2 ϵ 0 σ 0 2
= − 5 P A R x − 1 6 σ R 2 x + 3 2 π 2 ϵ 0 r 4 q 2
d F = P n e t d A = d M x ¨ = 4 π r 2 M d A x ¨
⇒ M x ¨ = 4 π r 2 P n e t
Hence,
M x ¨ ≈ − 4 π ( 5 P A R + 1 6 σ ) x + 8 π ϵ 0 R 2 q 2 ( 1 − 2 R x )
Now , we neglect 4 π ϵ 0 R 3 q 2 x
Clearly, this represents SHM with a time period of T 0 = 5 P A R + 1 6 σ π M
Hence, a + b + c = 2 2
Note: Another method can be energy conservation, where electrostatic energy is 8 π ϵ 0 r q 2 .