Ratul's Triangle Revisited

Geometry Level 4

Suppose a triangle with side lengths a , b , c a,b,c has an inradius r = 1 r = 1 , a circumradius R = 3 R = 3 and a semiperimeter s = 7 s = 7 .

Find a 2 + b 2 + c 2 a^{2} + b^{2} + c^{2} .


Based on an imaginary question posted by Ratul Pan .


The answer is 72.

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4 solutions

We will work with the formulas r = 1 s s ( s a ) ( s b ) ( s c ) r = \dfrac{1}{s}\sqrt{s(s - a)(s - b)(s - c)} for the inradius and R = a b c 4 s r R = \dfrac{abc}{4sr} for the circumradius .

From the second equation we see that 3 = a b c 4 × 7 × 1 a b c = 84 3 = \dfrac{abc}{4 \times 7 \times 1} \Longrightarrow abc = 84 .

From the first equation we see that

1 = 1 7 7 ( 7 a ) ( 7 b ) ( 7 c ) 7 = ( 7 a ) ( 7 b ) ( 7 c ) 1 = \dfrac{1}{7}\sqrt{7(7 - a)(7 - b)(7 - c)} \Longrightarrow 7 = (7 - a)(7 - b)(7 - c) \Longrightarrow

7 = ( 49 7 ( a + b ) + a b ) ( 7 c ) = 343 49 ( a + b + c ) + 7 ( a b + a c + b c ) a b c 7 = (49 - 7(a + b) + ab)(7 - c) = 343 - 49(a + b + c) + 7(ab + ac + bc) - abc .

Substituting in a + b + c = 2 s = 14 a + b + c = 2s = 14 and a b c = 84 abc = 84 and simplifying yields that

7 = 343 49 × 14 + 7 ( a b + a c + b c ) 84 a b + a c + b c = 62 7 = 343 - 49 \times 14 + 7(ab + ac + bc) - 84 \Longrightarrow ab + ac + bc = 62 .

So a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = ( a + b + c ) 2 2 ( a b + a c + b c ) = 1 4 2 2 × 62 = 72 a^{2} + b^{2} + c^{2} = (a + b + c)^{2} - 2(ab + ac + bc) = 14^{2} - 2 \times 62 = \boxed{72} .

Edit: Note that, as Michael Mendrin points out in his solution, such a triangle does exist and has side lengths 4 2 , 4 + 2 , 6 4 - \sqrt{2}, 4 + \sqrt{2}, 6 .

Jon Haussmann
Feb 18, 2017

In general, a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = 2 s 2 2 r 2 8 R r a^2 + b^2 + c^2 = 2s^2 - 2r^2 - 8Rr .

Woah, this is a nice little identity. How did you come up with that? And how do you know if such a triangle exists in the first place?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 3 months ago

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I saw it somewhere, and it's not hard to verify using the usual formulas. Obviously, the identity makes sense only if there exists such a triangle in the first place.

Jon Haussmann - 4 years, 3 months ago
James Pohadi
Mar 26, 2017

Inradius r = A s \color{#3D99F6}{r=\dfrac{A}{s}} , Circumradius R = a b c 4 A a b c = 4 A R R=\dfrac{abc}{4A} \longrightarrow \color{#20A900}{abc=4AR}

A = s ( s a ) ( s b ) ( s c ) A 2 = s ( s a ) ( s b ) ( s c ) A × A s = ( s a ) ( s b ) ( s c ) A r = ( s a ) ( s b ) ( s c ) A r = s 3 ( a + b + c ) s 2 + ( a b + a c + b c ) s a b c A r = s 3 ( 2 s ) s 2 + ( a b + a c + b c ) s 4 A R ( a b + a c + b c ) s = s 3 2 s 3 A r 4 A R a b + a c + b c = s 3 A r 4 A R s a b + a c + b c = s 2 + A s × r + 4 × A s × R a b + a c + b c = s 2 + r × r + 4 × r × R a b + a c + b c = s 2 + r 2 + 4 R r \begin{aligned} A&=\sqrt{s(s-a)(s-b)(s-c)} \\ A^{2}&=s(s-a)(s-b)(s-c) \\ A \times \color{#3D99F6}{\dfrac{A}{s}}&=(s-a)(s-b)(s-c) \\ A\color{#3D99F6}{r}&=(s-a)(s-b)(s-c) \\ Ar&=s^{3}-(a+b+c)s^{2}+(ab+ac+bc)s-\color{#20A900}{abc} \\Ar&=s^{3}-(2s)s^{2}+(ab+ac+bc)s-\color{#20A900}{4AR} \\ -(ab+ac+bc)s&=s^{3}-2s^{3}-Ar-4AR \\ ab+ac+bc&=\dfrac{-s^{3}-Ar-4AR}{-s} \\ ab+ac+bc&=s^{2}+\color{#3D99F6}{\dfrac{A}{s}} \color{#333333}{\times r +4 \times} \color{#3D99F6}{\dfrac{A}{s}} \color{#333333}{\times R} \\ ab+ac+bc&=s^{2}+\color{#3D99F6}{r} \color{#333333}{\times r +4} \times \color{#3D99F6}{r} \color{#333333}{\times R} \\ ab+ac+bc&=s^{2}+r^{2}+4Rr \end{aligned}

Then,

a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = ( a + b + c ) 2 2 ( a b + a c + b c ) a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = ( 2 s ) 2 2 ( s 2 + r 2 + 4 R r ) a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = 4 s 2 2 s 2 2 r 2 8 R r a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = 2 s 2 2 r 2 8 R r \begin{aligned} a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2}&=(a+b+c)^{2}-2(ab+ac+bc) \\ a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2}&= (2s)^{2}-2(s^{2}+r^{2}+4Rr) \\ a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2}&=4s^{2}-2s^{2}-2r^{2}-8Rr \\ a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2}&=2s^{2}-2r^{2}-8Rr \end{aligned}

So, a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = 2 × 7 2 2 × 1 2 8 × 3 × 1 = 72 a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2}=2 \times 7^{2} -2 \times 1^{2} -8 \times 3 \times 1=72

Nice proof of the identity Jon Haussmann mentioned. :)

Brian Charlesworth - 4 years, 2 months ago

@Brian Charlesworth Thank you, sir!

James Pohadi - 4 years, 2 months ago
Michael Mendrin
Feb 17, 2017

It's a right triangle of sides ( 4 + 2 , 4 2 , 6 ) \left(4+\sqrt{2}, \; 4-\sqrt{2}, \; 6\right) , which has a semi-perimeter of 7 7 , an inradius of 1 1 , and a circumradius of 3 3 . So, the sum of the squares of the sides is the same as twice the square of the hypotenuse, or 72 72

Huh. A funny thing happened on the way to creating a real triangle; I made a right one. :p

P.S.. Ratul deleted his question and didn't repost so I thought it was worthwhile to do the reposting myself.

Brian Charlesworth - 4 years, 3 months ago

It's a right triangle of sides ( 4 + 2 , 4 2 , 6 ) \left(4+\sqrt{2}, \; 4-\sqrt{2}, \; 6\right) ...

How did you find this?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 3 months ago

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You know the cubic equation that has its roots as a,b and c.By rational root theorem, we see that 6 is a root of the cubic equation. Remaining two roots can be found by solving the resulting quadratic equation which is obtained by dividing the cubic equation by (x - 6).

Indraneel Mukhopadhyaya - 4 years, 3 months ago

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What cubic equation?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Read my solution.

Indraneel Mukhopadhyaya - 4 years, 3 months ago

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@Indraneel Mukhopadhyaya But you didn't show that there exists a triangle with sides a,b,c that satisfy these conditions.

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh The solutions of the cubic equation that I have found do represent the sides of a triangle as per the triangle inequality. If at all a triangle would not have been possible, then the solutions of the cubic equation would violate the triangle inequality,and since that is not happening in this case, it shows that the triangle does exist with its side lengths equal to the roots of the cubic equation.

Indraneel Mukhopadhyaya - 4 years, 3 months ago

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@Indraneel Mukhopadhyaya No, you have only shown that one of the roots/sides is 6. For completeness, you need to show that the other two roots/sides are positive numbers. And that you must show that these 3 roots/sides satisfy the triangle inequality so that a triangle actually exist.

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 3 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh I think now your question has been answered as to how those side lengths are obtained.

Indraneel Mukhopadhyaya - 4 years, 3 months ago

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@Indraneel Mukhopadhyaya Yes, by reading your solution. Thanks

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 3 months ago

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