Can a suitable substitution help?

Algebra Level 3

The equation x + x 2 = 4 x + \sqrt{x-2} = 4 has __________ . \text{\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_}.

2 real roots 1 real root 1 real and 1 imaginary root 2 imaginary roots

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13 solutions

Sanjeet Raria
Nov 2, 2014

x + x 2 = 4 x+\sqrt{x-2}=4 Squring & solving, x 2 9 x + 18 = 0 \Rightarrow x^2-9x+18=0 x = 6 , 3 \Rightarrow x=6,3 Due to squaring, there's an extraneous root of the final quadratic. Hence one should check the roots in the original equation. Here x = 6 x=6 fails the test hence we're left with x = 3 x=3 as the only solution.

There are 2 real roots (as in the fact both 3 and 6 are in the element of real numbers. However, 6 is an extraneous solution to the problem (aka it doesn't work) it's slightly misleading to state there is one real root. Both are in real numbers, only one of them works of course. Seems that the comments have gotten quite heated :p. The majority of people who wrote 2 real roots were probably thinking along my lines in the problem, as in the solutions are in the elements of real numbers. I think a more accurate answer should be 2 real roots, one extraneous solution. :)

Joe Potillor - 4 years, 6 months ago

Well, some people might not regard it. I solved this problem just by looking at the two sides. RHS has 4, so there are only three ways to break LHS as 1+3, 3+1, 2+2. If we put the values of x, we get the answer 3 only. I think no need to go into complexities.

Kshitij Kr - 3 years, 11 months ago

How did you get -9x

Wyatt Bryant - 2 years, 11 months ago

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Subtract x and square, and you get x - 2 = (4 - x)^2 == x^2 - 8x + 16. So, x^2 - 8x + 16 = x - 2. Subtract x - 2, and you get x^2 - 9x + 18 = 0.

Whitney Clark - 2 years, 9 months ago

The solution to any square root has a positive and negative solution. https://www.desmos.com/calculator/iijahqbtkx Shows there are indeed 2 real solutions!

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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That is wrong, please see Sanjeet's solution above. Three works, six does not.

Whitney Clark - 6 years, 7 months ago

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No it isn't. The negative square root for x = 6 becomes, if you consider that square root of (6-2) is either plus or minus 2 then 6+ -2 = 4 Second solution.

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Andy Cooper Ah, but the square root sign indicates non-negative roots only. Thus, x 2 \sqrt{x-2} CANNOT be negative.

Whitney Clark - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Whitney Clark Yes that is what I am saying too.

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

@Whitney Clark No it doesn't. Not in pure maths which this question states. \sqrt{6-2} = +or- 2 There is no convention for wanting the negative square root. This question could be posted in an exam and the correct solution would be 2 real roots taking into account the possibility of both positive and negative roots.

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Andy Cooper What are you talking about? There is no plus-or-minus in the equation. Every positive number has two square roots, that is true, but the \sqrt{} sign only refers to the positive one. as otherwise the ± \pm sign would be redundant in the quadratic formula.

Whitney Clark - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Whitney Clark Yes that is the reason we have ± \pm in front of \sqrt { } and it is always explicitly sated in the formula.

The equation does have +ve sign prefixed in front of the radical .See the original equation.

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

@Whitney Clark The plus and minus sign is redundant. It is only there because no one learns the quadratic equation from first principles by completing the square. Try it and you will discover that unless you put it in yourself you will only get a positive solution! The quadratic formula is there to give people a guide not give people an understanding of what they are actually doing. If you plot the two graphs of squareroot of x-2 and 4 minus x you will discover that they cross at two places. But you must plot the whole of the squareroot graph not only the positive solutions!

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Andy Cooper I don't know why you're arguing with me. The square root sign means the principal root only, and not both roots. Look it up in any dictionary.

Whitney Clark - 6 years, 7 months ago

@Andy Cooper If you follow a proof for where the quadratic formula comes from by completing the square of ax^2 + bx + c = 0 and rearranging to give you x = then miraculously the plus and minus just gets added.

Try it and see how you get on.

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Andy Cooper We can continue on this topic later.

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

Square root has a positive and negative solution? could you explain please, giving an example?

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

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If you square -6 you would get 36. If you square 6 you get 36 therefore the squareroot of 36 is either 6 or -6!

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Andy Cooper Please note that, √ of some real number is always a positive value.

Mathematically

x 2 = x \huge \sqrt {x^2}=|x|

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Sanjeet Raria @Sanjeet Raria Bro' this problem is heating up. :D .

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Soumo Mukherjee Congratulations

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Sanjeet Raria Ha ! Ha!

in which problem did ya get the maximum vote? I guess this is it!

Congrats to you :)

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Soumo Mukherjee Yeah it did. But the problem which gave me the maximum number of upvotes include

This &

Do it fast, or do it slow

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 7 months ago

@Andy Cooper About the 2 real solutions ...there is only one real solution. The curve mentioned in the question intersects with y=4 at only one point...

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

No. Check Domain.

Sankalp Ranjan - 6 years, 7 months ago

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Domain not stated in question!

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Andy Cooper Basically, x 2 = a x^{2}=a is not the same as x = a x=\sqrt{a} . The first has two solutions for x if a 0 a \geq 0 but the second, given a, has only one solution.

A number does have two square roots, but the sign denotes only the principal square root or the positive one. Hopefully this clarifies your doubts.

Joel Tan - 6 years, 6 months ago

The negative is made positive by addition. (It's the 3)

Wyatt Bryant - 2 years, 11 months ago
Soumo Mukherjee
Nov 2, 2014

Since the question asks about the roots so we proceed to find it:

x 2 = 4 x o r , x 2 = 16 8 x + x 2 o r , x 2 9 x + 18 = ( x 6 ) ( x 3 ) = 0. x = 6 o r 3 \sqrt { x-2 } =4-x\\ or,\quad x-2=16-8x+{ x }^{ 2 }\\ or,\quad { x }^{ 2 }-9x+18=(x-6)(x-3)=0.\\ \therefore x=6\quad or\quad 3

Now, we get two real value of x for the equation x 2 9 x + 18 = 0 { x }^{ 2 }-9x+18=0 and not for x 2 = 4 x \sqrt { x-2 } =4-x .

So we crosscheck, out of the two value of x obtained for x 2 9 x + 18 = 0 { x }^{ 2 }-9x+18=0 does both satisfy x 2 = 4 x \sqrt { x-2 } =4-x .

Then we find that only x=3 satisfies x 2 = 4 x \sqrt { x-2 } =4-x and not x=6 so the answer is only 1 real root.

Notice that x 2 = 4 x \sqrt { x-2 } =4-x and x 2 9 x + 18 = 0 { x }^{ 2 }-9x+18=0 are not equivalent

You mean, 3 + 5 = 4 ? ? 3+√5=4?? No offense but your isn't correct.

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 7 months ago

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oh..really sorry. there is a problem with + and - Thanx for pointing out.

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

Your original statement isn't correct. Check it. @Math Philic

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 7 months ago

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Pardon me, but instead of the solution, I have corrected the problem.In the actual problem we have - instead of +.Sorry @Sanjeet Raria for the inconvenience.

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

In this statement you should correct that √4 =±2"Then we find that only x=3 satisfies and not x=6 so the answer is only 1 real root."

aryan tomar - 3 years, 5 months ago
Sankalp Ranjan
Nov 6, 2014

Everybody does this : sqrt(x-2) = 4-x ; x-2 = (4-x)^2; x^2-9x+18 = 0; x = 3,6; i.e. two real roots.

But, You must always check the Domain before solving any eqn.

Here, LHS is an always positive value (since, square root.) So, RHS > 0, or, 4-x > 0, x<4. 3 satisfies this, but, 6 does not.

Yes, you need to look at both LHS and RHS.

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

I used Descartes' Rule of Signs. Oh well, lucky shot?

Alvin Lownleinhigh Mella - 4 years, 2 months ago
P C
Aug 12, 2015

Meher Engineer
Nov 5, 2014

no real solution is possible if x is less than 2 because the square root of a negative number does not exist within the real numbers.

obviously, no solution is possible, for real x values greater than 4.

So, real solutions are possible only for x values between 2 and 4.

it follows that the only real solution is x = 3.

Angellis Jose
Nov 5, 2014

there could be 2 roots, since 6 minus square root of (6-2) is equal to 6 minus the square root of 4, since there are two roots to square root of any positive numbers, the square root of 4 is equal to +2 and -2, hence 6 + (-2) = 4

Square root of any number is always a positive number. so square root of 4 is only 2 and not =2,-2. there is only 1 solution.

VIKAS KUMAR - 6 years, 7 months ago

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what??? The square root of any number does have 2 solutions. This problem does take that into account as if you plot the function including the truth that there are two roots to every number then there are two real solutions.

This problem is Incorrect

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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Never say : The problem is Incorrect, unless You are a mathematician.

x^2 = 4.implies that, plus/minus x = sqrt(4) i.e. x = plus/minus 2.

sqrt(4) = 2, not plus/minus 2. This might have cleared your doubt. :)

Sankalp Ranjan - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Sankalp Ranjan Funny enough I am a mathematician. If there is no domain or range stated then you have to allow that squareroots have 2 solutions. -6 squared is 36 just the same as 6 squared is 36.

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Andy Cooper 'There is no domain...' ok suppose you are getting 2 answers, are both correct? or only one? Which would you choose ?

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Soumo Mukherjee Look at the desmos link I posted! It needs to draw the solution that takes into account that the square root will give both a positive and negative value. Just because the question state +square root does explicitly remove the possibility of a negative solution. If you are happy that square root of x-2 can be either positive or negative then there is two real solutions. The question posed is correct but the solution is incorrect. As the question is stated there are 2 real solutions!

Andy Cooper - 6 years, 7 months ago

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@Andy Cooper Ok, @Andy Cooper ,sorry to trouble you. I get it.I visited your link. But in the question we have x + x 2 x+\sqrt { x-2 } ... and not x x 2 x-\sqrt { x-2 } ... so shouldn't we answer to the former equation?('Cuz it's the question itself)

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

@Andy Cooper There are two square roots, but the sign only refers to the positive square root. That's the definition of the sign. You can look up the definition in some dictionaries if you want to.

This is a good site: The most common errors in undergraduate mathematics Hopefully the part about square roots will help clarify your doubts.

Joel Tan - 6 years, 6 months ago

@Andy Cooper Hi, Andy. I read the whole conversation and I wanted to tell you that when I was a bit young I thought the same and I would have given the same argument that square roots can be both positive and negative. But my teacher told me that of course there are 2 roots but we only consider the positive one and not the negative one and the negative root is called an extraneous root. Hence, I got this problem right. We only consider positive root and not negative one. Can anyone tell me a proof for this because even I don't know the reason why we are considering positive only and not negative? I got the problem right though because I knew I had to consider only positive value of a square root, but why? Sanjeet Raria In which centre of FIITJEE are you teaching ? I go to FIITJEE South Delhi.

Kushagra Sahni - 6 years, 5 months ago
Ahmed Essam
Nov 18, 2014

x + ( x 2 ) 4 = 0 x + \sqrt(x-2) - 4 = 0

we can factorize it directly

( ( x 2 ) 2 ) ( ( x 2 ) + 1 ) (\sqrt(x-2) -2)(\sqrt(x-2) + 1 )

and here we get

x = 3 x = 3 and x = 6 x=6 but that root is extraneous

so x = 3 x = 3

factored should be (...+2)(...-1) not (...-2)(...+1) but nice solution otherwise

David Richner - 5 years ago

x+√(x-2)=4

x+√(x-2)-4=0

(x-2)+√(x-2)-2=0

let y=√(x-2)

y^2+y-2=0

(y+2)(y-1)=0

Therefore

y=-2

y=1

Furthermore

y=√(x-2)=-2

((√(x-2))^2=(-2)^2

x-2=4

x=6

y=√(x-2)=1

(√(x-2))^2=(1)^2

x-2=1

x=3

Substituting it to the original equation tell you that 6 is not an acceptable answer.

Therefore the answer is x=3.

Hobart Pao
Nov 5, 2014

How is this problem level 3, honestly? In my honors trig class last year, these were like the "A" level problems (easiest) and this is America

When this problem posted initially it was of level 4. Can you believe that.

Sanjeet Raria - 6 years, 7 months ago

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Who decides the level? Certainly not the person posting it! I have posted some more problems in brilliant many of are still un-leveled. I think the number of people attempting it to the number of people solving it is the factor that is putting levels to a problem.

However level5 /4 problems are not attempted by many and solved by even a less number of people, but they have a level, then there could also be some other factors that put a level on a problem.

I want all my problems to have level. Most problems I post could be solved by very elementary knowledge, regardless of the statement. Statements are meant to be scary, not the solution. They could be appropriately rated as Level1 or Level2.

There is a story behind this problem with me, there is always some sort of a story behind a problem with the Solver. When I attempted it, I isolated the radical, squared the expression, got a highest power -2- of x, it looked like a quadratic, checked the discriminant, and answered 2 real roots. Later the solution revealed that the original one has only one -- as you explained in your solution that squaring brings extra root.

But, even if anyone doesn't know what kind of operation brings an extra root, or what kind of operation removes a root, one can always crosscheck,isn't it?After calculating the discriminant I should have found the roots. Often one solve something other than the original question. And , worse is, he thinks he has solved the original one. The two equations that one will get [the original one and the one after squaring] are not equivalent . Making such kind of mistake doesn't show that the Solver has a vague or less knowledge but that he is careless. So, the moral of this problem is, Don't be careless .

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago

read below . . . .

Soumo Mukherjee - 6 years, 7 months ago
Minh Nguyen
Jan 2, 2017

x + x 2 = 4 ( x > = 2 ) x+\sqrt{x-2}=4(x>=2) ( x 2 ) + x 2 2 = 0 \Leftrightarrow(x-2)+\sqrt{x-2}-2=0 ( x 2 1 ) ( x 2 + 2 ) = 0 \Leftrightarrow(\sqrt{x-2}-1)(\sqrt{x-2}+2)=0 x 2 1 = 0 \Leftrightarrow\sqrt{x-2}-1=0 x 2 = 1 \Leftrightarrow\sqrt{x-2}=1 x = 3 \Leftrightarrow x=3

DarkMind S.
Nov 19, 2016

Oh C'mon. Just substitute 3 into the equation, and you get 4.
So the 3' is the lone real root

Caner Uler
Sep 10, 2016

Subtract 4 from both sides and get the function: f(x) = x + sqr(x-2) - 4

Once we graph the function, we see that there is only one x-intercept.

Hence, 1 real root.

Please graph so we can all see. Thank You!

Bill Snyder - 3 years ago
Samuel Li
Apr 5, 2015

Note that the function is always increasing. Therefore, the function can only be equal to 4 at one x-value, which is 3, by inspection.

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