Robin and the rat

Robin Hood wants to shoot a rat that's standing on the top of a pillar 4.24475 m 4.24475~\mbox{m} high. The distance between Robin and the pillar is 10 m 10~\mbox{m} . The rat has seen Robin, and is eyeing him with its beady little rodent eyes and debating whether stepping off the pillar or risking Robin's shot gives a better chance of survival. The rat decides to step off. Robin releases his arrow right when the rat steps off the pillar. If he successfully shoots the rat what was the angle the arrow was shot at with respect to the ground in degrees ?

Details and assumptions

  • Assume the arrow is released from the ground.
  • This problem was submitted by Kiriti M.


The answer is 23.

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11 solutions

Let's say that Robin aims his arrow exactly at the rat and that the rat doesn't step off. What will happen? Well, since there's gravity the arrow will describe the proverbial parabola and it will hit somewhere on the pillar. Now image the case without gravity; the arrow will continue on a straight line with the initial velocity Robin gave it and finally will hit the rat. So for a given time, what will be the difference between a point on the straight line trajectory and the parabola. Since in both cases there's no acceleration in the x x (or horizontal) direction, the motion in this direction will be the same. On the other hand, if we take the difference in the position in the y y (or vertical) direction we have:

Straight line: y = V 0 sin ( θ ) t y = V_0 \sin(\theta) ~t

Parabola: y = V 0 sin ( θ ) t g t 2 2 y = V_0 \sin(\theta) ~t - \frac{g t^2}{2}

We see that the difference is the term g t 2 2 \frac{g t^2}{2} which is exactly the distance an object falls in a time t t if we let it go with no initial velocity. So if Robin aims exactly at the rat, and when he shoots the rat steps off, then in a time t t the rat will have fallen exactly the same distance than the arrow in the vertical direction (provided that the initial velocity is large enough to reach the pillar, because otherwise the arrow could just hit the ground in front of the pillar; but we know this is not the case since it says that Robin successfully shoots the rat). So we have a geometry problem: find the angle of a right angled triangle with legs 10 m 10 ~m and 4.24475 m 4.24475 ~m , which is: tan ( θ ) = 4.24475 10 θ 23 ° \tan(\theta) = \frac{4.24475}{10} \Rightarrow \theta \simeq 23°

We know that everything accelerates at the same rate, so the arrow and the rat must be falling at the same rate. The accelerations due to gravity end up cancelling out because they are both accelerating at 9.8 m e t e r s 1 s e c o n d \frac{-9.8 meters}{1second} .
Even better, from this, we know that if Robinhood points the arrow straight on top of the pillar (and releases it the same time the rat jumps) it will fall at the same rate as the mouse (killing it when they cross paths).
Drawing a right triangle, it can be observed that t a n θ = 4.24475 10 tan\theta = \frac{4.24475}{10} .
This means theta is around 23 d e g r e e s \boxed{23 degrees} .


why does everyone assumes that the arrow traveled straight? did the arrow not travel like a projectile?

Jay Kim Mariano - 7 years, 2 months ago

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The idea is that the apple and the arrow both fall at the same rate. So the arrow will always point at the falling apple.

A Former Brilliant Member - 7 years, 2 months ago

why doesn't the initial velocity of the arrow matter?

Bowen Wang - 7 years, 5 months ago

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It does -- but I believe everyone is assuming that the arrow never hits the ground again.
The initial velocity of the arrow only affects the amount of time it takes for the arrow to intersect the line of "falling" of the rat. If the arrow was moving quickly, the intersection if the arrow and the rat would be close to the rat's initial position, if the arrow was moving slowly, the intersection of the arrow and the rat could be far below the ground.
It is something that could have been made more clear in the question, but it never crossed my mind while doing this problem.

A Former Brilliant Member - 7 years, 5 months ago

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In simple words, the downward component of accelerations of the arrow and the rat is the same i.e. g. So after the same time interval the arrow & the rat would have same vertical displacements. This is the reason why if you aim directly at the rat & shoot the arrow, it will hit it; no matter how far the separations are. So simply we have, tan x = 4.24475/10 or x = 23 degrees.

Amlan Mishra - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Amlan Mishra So the initial velocity has no role in determining the angle of shoot.

Amlan Mishra - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Amlan Mishra Yeah, but it could be the case that the arrow hits the ground before hitting the rat -- so it may have confused some people.

A Former Brilliant Member - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member O Yeah..that may have confused...

Amlan Mishra - 7 years, 5 months ago

buy what we can correctly calculate the mean of theta without using calculator

Manish Choudhary - 7 years, 4 months ago
Ankit Sultana
Aug 12, 2013

This question is incredibly short than it seems to be. Assume the bullet(say) is shot at an angle θ. Instead of observing the act from ground frame, we will use a frame which is accelerating with an acceleration g vertically downwards, the rat will be in rest from this frame, and the bullet will move with constant velocity. This implies that the line along which the bullet is travelling should pass through the apex of the pole where the rat was initially sitting, hence a right angle triangle is complete with height 4.24475 and base 10 with angle b/w hypotenuse and base = θ. Therefore tanθ=(4.24474/10). Hence calculate θ.

Moderator note:

Slick. Often many problems can be more easily solved by switching reference frames.

Subhajit Mondal
Jan 13, 2014

Given Height of pillar (Perpendicular) = 4.24475 m Given Distance of Robin (Base) = 10.

tan x = Perpendicular/Base

thus, tan x =4.24475/10 => tan x= 0.424475 => x = tan^-1(0.424475) => x = 23

thanks a lot :D

amgalan amgaa - 7 years, 4 months ago
Yash Patel
Jan 27, 2014

The pillar is 4.24475 metres high, which is the opposite length. The distance to the pole is 10 metres, our adjacent length. Thus, we take the arctan of 4.24475 divided by 10, giving 23 degrees

10^{2}+4.2275^{2}= AB

AB = considering it as right angled triangle where base = 10 and perpendicular is 4.24475.

AB= 10.86

Resolving AB into two components i.e. AB \cos \theta and AB\ sin \theta .

AB \cos \theta = 10

10.86 \cos \theta=10

\cos \theta=10/10.86

\cos \theta=0.92081

\cos \theta =cos 23 degree

\theta=23degree

I think you could have directly used tan x = 4.24475/10. And you could easily get x = 23 degrees

Amlan Mishra - 7 years, 5 months ago

angle = arctan(4.24475/10) = 23

Muhammad Anwar
Dec 17, 2013

If we consider a right angle triangle and height of pillar is its perpendicular and its base is the distance between Robin hood and the pillar then by applying

tan(angle)=Perpendicular/Base

we can find angle

Josh Petrin
Aug 15, 2013

Robin shoots at a point that is 4.24475 4.24475 m above the ground that is 10 10 m away from where he is standing. Thus, the degree he shot at is approximately tan 1 4.24475 10 = 23 \tan^{-1} \frac{4.24475}{10} = \boxed{23}^{\circ} .

Prince Raiyan
Aug 14, 2013

Let the ground be the base and the pillar be the perpendicular of a right triangle...

Let's assume the required angle as θ \theta ... Then...

tan θ = P e r p e n d i c u l a r B a s e = 4.24475 m 10 m = 0.424475 \tan \theta = \frac {Perpendicular}{Base} = \frac {4.24475m}{10m} = 0.424475 tan θ = 0.424475 θ = tan 1 0.424475 = 23 \Longrightarrow \tan \theta = 0.424475 \Longrightarrow \theta = \tan ^{-1} 0.424475=23

Hence, the required answer is 23 \fbox {23} ...

Avi Swartz
Aug 12, 2013

This is a very famous problem, known as the Monkey and the Hunter . The solution to it is that Robin must aim directly at the rat, because the arrow and the rat fall at the same speed.

Can you explain it more thorough? The Monkey and the Hunter problem States that the hunter's head is In the same height as the monkey, this is however not the case in this problem, since Robin can't possibly be 4.2m tall - I can't grasp that the arrow and rat will eventually collide, since the arrow starts moving up immediately after firing, when the rat on the other hand is moving down. Must one assume that the arrow will be at the top of its parabola, when it is at the same horizontal position as the rat?

Phillip Vetter - 7 years, 10 months ago

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Robin aims his arrow directly at the rat. If there is no gravity, the arrow will fly straight, and hit the top of the pole. If there is gravity, the rat will fall. However, the arrow will drop at the same rate.

For example, if the rat dropped 1m in the time needed for the arrow to travel to the pole, then the arrow would have also dropped 1m. Instead of hitting the 4.2m at the top of the pole, the arrow goes to 3.2m, right where the rat is.

Avi Swartz - 7 years, 10 months ago

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Great explation, Thanks man ;)

Phillip Vetter - 7 years, 10 months ago

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