Rose Petals

Algebra Level 1

P ( k ) P(k) is the number of petals in a rose formed by the polar equation r = cos ( k θ ) . r = \cos(k\theta).

For example, P ( 4 ) = 8 P(4) = 8 because r = cos ( 4 θ ) r = \cos(4\theta) has 8 8 petals, and P ( 5 ) = 5 P(5) = 5 because r = cos ( 5 θ ) r = \cos(5\theta) has 5 5 petals.

Is there a positive integer k k such that P ( k ) = 2018 ? P(k) = 2018?

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10 solutions

Zico Quintina
Jun 21, 2018

The curve r = cos ( k θ ) r = \cos (k \theta) begins ( θ = 0 \theta=0 ) at r = 1 r=1 on the polar axis, or equivalently the point ( 1 , 0 ) (1,0) on the x x -axis. It reaches the pole (the origin) for the first time when k θ = π 2 k \theta = \frac{\pi}{2} , i.e. when θ = π 2 k \theta = \frac{\pi}{2k} . By then it has completed half of a petal, which means that θ \theta has to rotate through π k \frac{\pi}{k} to complete one full petal.

In order to complete a rose, the curve must return to its starting point, which will happen in one of two ways: either θ \theta is a multiple of 2 π 2\pi and r = 1 r=1 , the latter implying that k θ k \theta is also a multiple of 2 π 2\pi ; or θ \theta is an odd multiple of π \pi and r = 1 r=-1 , the latter again implying that k θ k \theta is also an odd multiple of π \pi .

Suppose k k is odd. The first time one of the two above conditions is satisfied is when θ = π \theta = \pi ; by then, since one petal is completed for every π k \frac{\pi}{k} , the rose will have k k petals. But this means the number of petals will be odd.

Suppose k k is even. Then when θ \theta is any multiple of π \pi (even an odd multiple) k θ k \theta will be an even multiple of π \pi , so the first time the necessary conditions for completion of a rose are satisfied will be when θ = 2 π \theta = 2 \pi ; by then, the rose will have 2 k 2k petals. But this means the number of petals will be a multiple of 4 4 .

Since 2018 2018 is neither odd nor a multiple of 4 4 , there can be no integer k k such that P ( k ) = 2018 P(k) = 2018 .

Great solution!

David Vreken - 2 years, 11 months ago

Every year when I teach precalculus my students love making roses when we learn about polar coordinates. We then figure out what numbers of petals are possible. Your explanation is a bit excessive for them but they get that the petals for odd k overlap so they don't appear doubled. The following class I always challenge them to make a 6 petaled rose. It's impossible by the rules of this problem but can be accomplished by bending the rules in different ways and a great challenge for the students.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 11 months ago

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My pre-calculus students also love making roses. Asking them to make a 6 petaled rose is a great idea! I'm going to start asking that, too.

David Vreken - 2 years, 11 months ago

I got the explanation but I feel r shouldnt be negative (polar coordinates) , implying there should be no graph for those angles. This makes P(k) = k for all k. This seems more intuitive for me.

Gobind Singh - 2 years, 11 months ago

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I'm not sure what you mean, but in polar coordinates r r can definitely be negative. In a simple example, if r = cos θ r = \cos \theta , r r will become negative as soon as θ \theta goes past π 2 \frac{\pi}{2} . Actually I just reread your comment and saw the "... there should be no graph for those angles." It's an interesting idea, but then the domains of functions would be missing any number of intervals of angles which would be inadmissible, and that would be rather messy.

zico quintina - 2 years, 11 months ago

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Gobind is correct. By DEFINITION of polar coordinates, r cannot be negative!

Richard Greene - 2 years, 11 months ago

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@Richard Greene It depends whose definition you use. You can restrict r > 0 r>0 and 0 θ < 2 π 0\leq\theta<2\pi but the picture of r = cos 4 θ r=\cos{4\theta} indicates we should not do so for this problem.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 11 months ago

Basically from a physics viewpoint , r is the distance from the origin and technically distances cant be negative. That's why I struggled with this question thinking it was wrong.

Gobind Singh - 2 years, 11 months ago

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@Gobind Singh After you and Richard Greene both echoed the same sentiment, I did a little research (I've only had very limited exposure to polar coordinates myself.) From what I read, it appears that from a strictly mathematical standpoint it is acceptable to have negative values for r, unless one wants every point to have a unique representation, then one restricts r to non-negative values and theta to one revolution. But I understand what you're saying too, from a physical standpoint negative distances of course make no sense.

zico quintina - 2 years, 11 months ago

I agree. Was confused at first because it was like that, and my graphing calculator also showed only for positive numbers. Question should at least have a note saying that r is |r|

Aisthu Lucky - 2 years, 11 months ago

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What graphing calculator are you using that only shows positive r?

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 11 months ago

I cheated on this one - I happen to know that petals on flowers nearly always exist in either Fibonacci numbers or numbers that are double a Fibonacci number, and it takes very little time indeed to work out that 2018 is neither of the foregoing.

Thomas Sutcliffe - 2 years, 11 months ago

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But P(6) = 12 and 12 is neither a Fibonacci number nor double a Fibonacci number.

David Vreken - 2 years, 11 months ago

The "rose" in the problem is mathematical, not botanical. The name is the same because of similar visual characteristics, nothing more. Your "cheating" was no better than a guess. We've all tested our luck on true/false exam questions, so why not here also?

Tom Spencer - 2 years, 11 months ago
Zain Majumder
Jul 1, 2018

If r = cos c θ r = \cos{c\theta} , for some positive integer c c , then the number of petals will be 2 c 2c if c c is even, or the number of petals will be c c if c c is odd. Therefore, the number of petals must be odd or a multiple of 4 4 , but 2018 2018 is neither.

Vinod Kumar
Jul 4, 2018

Prime factorization of 2018 is 2 and 1009. It (2018=2×1009) will not match any odd or even (multiple of 4) petals counts in a polar plot r=cos(k*theta), for any value of k (odd or even).

Therefore, answer is 'NO'.

i have no IDEA what you guys are talking about, but this answer seems the most logical . thank you Mr. Vinod Kumar! i appreciate it

Luc Sleepyman - 2 years, 11 months ago
Phạm Hoàng
Jul 4, 2018

Since if k k is odd,then P ( k ) = k P(k)=k .If k k is even,then P ( k ) P(k) is divisible by 4.Since 2018 isn't odd or divisible by 4,so the answer is N o \boxed{No}

roses are red, violets are blue, 1009 is odd so saying there is an integer k such that P(k)=2018 won't be true.

We have to use facts.....such that no of petals in a flower appears to be in Fibonacci sequence....and we just have to prove that 2018 is not a Fibonacci number

P(5) = 5 which is a number in the Fibonacci sequence, but P(2) = 4 which is not a number in the Fibonacci sequence. The solution has nothing to do with 2018 being a Fibonacci number or not.

David Vreken - 2 years, 11 months ago
Bettie Wallace
Jul 5, 2018

2018 is not a multiple of 4 or odd.

P (odd) = odd , P (even) = 2 × even

Why?

We will count the number of petals by counting how many times r = 1 r=1 or r = 1 r=-1 (so we will count the endpoints of petals)

At first notice that the period of c o s ( k θ ) cos (kθ) is equal to 2 π k \frac {2π}{k} .

So if we segmented [ 0 , 2 π [0, 2π ) into pieces [ 0 + n 2 π k , 2 π k + n 2 π k ) [0+n\frac {2π}{k}, \frac {2π}{k} + n\frac {2π}{k}) we would get in each of k k pieces 1 solution ( θ = 0 + n 2 π k θ=0+n\frac {2π}{k} ) for c o s ( k θ ) = 1 cos (kθ)=1 and 1 solution ( θ = π k + n 2 π k θ=\frac {π}{k}+n\frac {2π}{k} ) for c o s ( k θ ) = 1 cos (kθ)=-1 .

The only issue when θ = π k + n 2 π k , r = 1 θ=\frac {π}{k}+n\frac {2π}{k}, r=-1 is that we might count it twice (if θ = π k + n 2 π k + π r = 1 θ=\frac {π}{k}+n\frac {2π}{k}+π \Rightarrow r=1 ).

This happens when k is odd and doesn't when k is even.

Since 2018 is not divisible by 4 nor odd there is no such k that P ( k ) = 2018 P (k) = 2018

Vlad Tucaliuc
Jul 6, 2018
  • Hello! I found an interesting solution for this problem. Maybe not so elegant as most of the others found here. First we must divide the circle in 4k sectors. If we follow how the plot is created, as angle theta is varying from 0 to 360 deg, we will observe that it starts in sector 1, after that it jumps in sector 1+(2k+1), after this in sector 1+(2k+1)+1, after this in sector 1+(2k+1)+1 +(2k+1) and so on. Also, we can observe, that the condition to obtain a closed curve is that at some step we will obtain the rest 1 when we divide the aforementioned sum at 4k.That step is equal to 2 P(k)+1. So this sum, at the step 2 P(k)+1, should be equal with some constant multiplied with 4k, plus 1. If we write this we find that 2 * 2018 * (k+1)+1 = 4 C k+1. Finally we obtain that 1009=(C-1009)*k which has no solution because min(k)=P(k) and C-1009 > 0. THE ANSWER IS NO! :D
Aneesh Kumar
Jul 3, 2018

r=cos(k∆),if k is an even integer then 2k should be the number of petals p(k),if k is an odd integer then k should be the p(k).But the number of petals in the flowers depends on fibonicci series:0,1,1,2,3,5.....So here p(k)=2018,but 2018 is not a fibonicci number,so the answer is "no"

The answer cannot be 2018 because 2018 is neither odd nor a multiple of 4, not because it's not a Fibonacci number. (P(2) = 4 and 4 is not a Fibonacci number.)

David Vreken - 2 years, 11 months ago

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