Rotation 1

A thin spherical shell of mass 6 k g 6 kg and radius 6 c m 6 cm is hit sharply by a cue at a height H ( c m ) H (cm) from the centre of mass of the shell.

Find H ( in cm ) H( \text{in cm}) such that shell does not slip over the surface on which it is kept as shown below.


The answer is 4.

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1 solution

Tapas Mazumdar
Mar 24, 2017

Let the impulse imparted by the cue be equal to F d t F \,dt .

Using impulse theorem, we have

F d t = m v m ( 0 ) = m v ( 1 ) F \,dt = mv - m (0) = mv \qquad \cdots (1)

Using angular impulse theorem about the point of contact of shell with the ground, we have

F d t ( H + R ) = I ω I ( 0 ) = ( I C M + m R 2 ) ω = ( 2 3 m R 2 + m R 2 ) ω = 5 3 m R 2 ω ( 2 ) F \,dt (H+R) = I \omega - I (0) = \left( I_{CM} + mR^2 \right) \omega = \left( \dfrac 23 mR^2 + mR^2 \right) \omega = \dfrac 53 mR^2 \omega \qquad \cdots (2)

where I I is the moment of inertia of the shell about the contact point of shell and the ground.

Dividing ( 2 ) (2) by ( 1 ) (1) we have

H + R = 5 R 2 ω 3 v H+R = \dfrac{5R^2 \omega}{3v}

For pure rolling, we must have v = R ω v = R \omega . Thus

H + R = 5 R 2 ω 3 v = 5 R 3 H = 2 R 3 = 2 ( 6 ) 3 = 4 cm H+R = \dfrac{5R^2 \omega}{3v} = \dfrac{5R}{3} \implies H = \dfrac{2R}{3} = \dfrac{2 (6)}{3} = \boxed{4 \text{ cm}}

Hey @Tapas Mazumdar @Spandan Senapati

Even if we assume no friction, the result comes same,you can verify it by conserving angular momentum abt com.What is the reason?

Harsh Shrivastava - 4 years, 2 months ago

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How can you assume there's no friction? If there was no friction, the shell would not start rolling.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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It can start, the impulse provides the necessary torque abt COM.

Harsh Shrivastava - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Harsh Shrivastava Only translational motion is possible in that case as the COM is not fixed. I suppose you also dealt with a question like this in some monthly test or AiiTS, where a solid sphere was struck with an impulse at some height and it was asked to comment about the further motion of the sphere.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Tapas Mazumdar No bro, you may take a solid cylinder and then apply force at a distance R/2 above com.Then there will be no need of friction.

Harsh Shrivastava - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Harsh Shrivastava Yes that's a misconception that friction is necessary for rolling..

Spandan Senapati - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Spandan Senapati Thanks for letting me know about this. This was my misconception too.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Tapas Mazumdar You are welcome.....Cheers

Spandan Senapati - 4 years, 2 months ago

@Tapas Mazumdar Tapas da, Solve this now, Related to the topics you were arguing on..

https://brilliant.org/problems/rotational-mechanics-3/

Md Zuhair - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Md Zuhair Actually I solved all your Rotation problems. This one, while I was on my phone, I mistapped the wrong option and ended up getting incorrect. All your other problems were integer or float answers so that error did not happen there.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Tapas Mazumdar But this one is not the one with options

Md Zuhair - 4 years, 2 months ago

@Md Zuhair I'm sorry. I see that this is an entirely different problem. Let's try.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Tapas Mazumdar Oh it can be.. Actually i didnt saw what you were talking in the middle at last i saw that it was written

"Thanks for letting me know about this. This was my misconception too."

Here this refers to that rolling in smooth floor

Md Zuhair - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Md Zuhair Yes. That was actually my misconception. The problem that you referred to me is completely relevant to this issue.

Before that when you referred to me the link of that problem, I only saw the URL address and presumed that it was the 3rd problem of your Rotation problems. That one I did incorrect because of tapping mistake.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Tapas Mazumdar Oh 3rd one means the one with Moment Of Inertia?

I know it feels very very very bad when a wrong option is clicked. It happened to me several times. SOMETIMES I MISTAKENLY CLICK DISCUSS SOLUTION!

I also know, I once asked Calvin sir, can you make it correct. I did it correctly and showed up the solution , but unfortunately he said that no its not possible to do such individual changes.

So bad Luck Bro.

Md Zuhair - 4 years, 2 months ago

@Harsh Shrivastava So, is there some additional info that had to be provided with this problem because my assumptions satisfy the answer.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

@Harsh Shrivastava And to the vertical impulse if there was any that would be nullified by impulsive Normal reaction.....Such impulses I guess you mustnbe familiar like ball hitting an incline etc

Spandan Senapati - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Spandan Senapati But what about it's torque, how can we neglect it about the point of contact, @Spandan Senapati

Harsh Shrivastava - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Harsh Shrivastava Ok that's true.The Normal can't shift anywhere as its a sphere.So its mostly that we need to neglect that.Do you see a reason why that should be neglected..I think it depends on the external agent.He could hit the cue straight and the contact being quite small(areal)there is unlikely any slipping that one could suppose at the point of hit.So its safe to assume it.

Spandan Senapati - 4 years, 2 months ago

No that's not true.Harsh is correct...Just a simple example.....A ball can roll on a frictionless surface..Friction comes to act to prevent any slipping and if by virtue of an external impulse you can prevent slipping its done.

Spandan Senapati - 4 years, 2 months ago

Why is there no component of impulse in vertical direction?

Harsh Shrivastava - 4 years, 2 months ago

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We are essentially not dealing with motion in the vertical direction here. The net impulse imparted however, has a vertical component; but since the vertical component points downward and downward motion is restricted, therefore the vertical component of impulse does not bring about change in momentum. If however, H H was below the COM of the shell, things would've been quirkier I suppose.

Here, F d t F \,dt is the horizontal component of impulse.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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So there's some error in your solution I guess, correct me if I am wrong though.

Your are not considering impulse about the point of contact due to vertical component of impulse imparted.

Harsh Shrivastava - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Harsh Shrivastava I'm considering horizontal component of impulse.

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Tapas Mazumdar Yeah but during conservation of angular momentum , vertical component of impulse will also provide impulse abt the point of contact.

Harsh Shrivastava - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Harsh Shrivastava Can you hint me the necessary steps to resolve this? Is my solution totally wrong?

Tapas Mazumdar - 4 years, 2 months ago

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@Tapas Mazumdar I think I have seen a similar question b4 where it was stated that assume impulse acts only in horizontal direction.

Harsh Shrivastava - 4 years, 2 months ago

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