Rotation Revision

The arrangement shown in the figure consists of two identical uniform solid cylinders, each of mass m m , on which two light threads are wound symmetrically.

The tension of each thread in the process of the motion can be expressed as α m g \alpha mg , where g g is the gravitational acceleration constant.

What is α \alpha ?

Assume that the friction in the axle of the upper cylinder is assumed to be absent.

This is one of my favorite problem taken from I.E Irodov, and now I am in search of different methods to solve this problem. I have solved the problem with the basic and straightforward method but I am in search of alternative methods.


The answer is 0.1.

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2 solutions

Chew-Seong Cheong
Oct 16, 2020

Let the tension of each thread be T T and the moment of inertia of the cylinder be I I and its radius be r r . Then I = m r 2 2 I=\dfrac {mr^2}2 and the torque of the top cylinder is given by:

τ = I α 1 where α 1 is the angular acceleration 2 T r = m r 2 2 α 1 of the top cylinder. α 1 = 4 T m r \begin{aligned} \tau & = I \alpha_1 & \small \blue{\text{where }\alpha_1 \text{ is the angular acceleration}} \\ 2Tr & = \frac {mr^2}2\alpha_1 & \small \blue{\text{of the top cylinder.}} \\ \implies \alpha_1 & = \frac {4T}{mr} \end{aligned}

Similarly, for the bottom cylinder, 2 T r = m r 2 2 α 2 α 2 = α 1 2Tr = \dfrac {mr^2}2 \alpha_2 \implies \alpha_2 = \alpha_1 . Now consider the translation motion of the bottom cylinder which is given by the downward force:

F z = m a where a is the resultant acceleration. m g 2 T = m a As there is no slipping of the m g 2 T = m a threads on the cylinders. = m ( α 1 r + α 2 r ) = 2 m α 1 r = 8 T T = m g 10 \begin{aligned} F_z & = m\blue a & \small \blue{\text{where }a \text{ is the resultant acceleration.}} \\ mg - 2T & = m\blue a & \small \blue{\text{As there is no slipping of the}} \\ mg - 2T & = m\blue a & \small \blue{\text{threads on the cylinders.}} \\ & = m \blue{(\alpha_1r + \alpha_2r)} \\ & = 2m \alpha_1 r \\ & = 8T \\ \implies T & = \frac {mg}{10} \end{aligned}

Therefore α = 0.1 \alpha = \boxed{0.1} .

@Chew-Seong Cheong Thanks for sharing. By the way, try my latest problem.

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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I have to relearn my uni stuff.

Chew-Seong Cheong - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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@Chew-Seong Cheong I didn't understand the above sentence .

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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@Talulah Riley I study electrical engineering in university in 1978/82. I learnt Mechanics then and now I have forgotten. So I have to learn it again.

Your latest problem should have an answer of v 0 α R g v_0 \blue \le \alpha \sqrt{Rg} and not \red \ge . The higher the velocity the easier it will bounce not the other way. Please change it.

Chew-Seong Cheong - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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@Chew-Seong Cheong @Chew-Seong Cheong Yeah sorry, it is corrected now. Thanks

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

@Chew-Seong Cheong whenever I upload a image, the image comes in the middle of the page.
How you made it to right side.? Thanks in advance.

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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! [] (https://ds055uzetaobb.cloudfront.net/uploads/bFL8azslf6-b201016.png|height=250){: .right}

Change the default "center" at the end to "right". I have also added "|height=250" to size the figure. We can also use "|width". Try them.

Chew-Seong Cheong - 7 months, 4 weeks ago
Karan Chatrath
Oct 12, 2020

Solving this problem using Lagrangian mechanics. Consider the initial separation between the cylinders' COM to be s s . The system is set into motion, assume that the first cylinder rotates by an angle θ 1 \theta_1 and the second cylinder rotates by an angle of θ 2 \theta_2 . Therefore, as the string unwinds due to the system's motion, the string increases in length by R θ 1 + R θ 2 R\theta_1+R\theta_2 as the lower cylinder falls due to its weight. Note that s s is treated as a constant.

Consider the axle of the first cylinder to be the origin. Then at any general time t t , the y coordinate of the COM of the lower cylinder is:

y = ( s + R θ 1 + R θ 2 ) y = -(s+R\theta_1+R\theta_2)

The kinetic energy of the system is the sum of rotational kinetic energies of the two cylinders and the translational kinetic energy of the lower cylinder. This expression is:

T = 1 2 ( m R 2 2 ) θ ˙ 1 2 + 1 2 ( m R 2 2 ) θ ˙ 2 2 + m 2 y ˙ 2 \mathcal{T} = \frac{1}{2}\left(\frac{mR^2}{2}\right)\dot{\theta}_1^2 + \frac{1}{2}\left(\frac{mR^2}{2}\right)\dot{\theta}_2^2 + \frac{m}{2}\dot{y}^2 T = 3 m R 2 θ ˙ 1 2 4 + 3 m R 2 θ ˙ 2 2 4 + m R 2 θ ˙ 1 θ ˙ 2 \implies \mathcal{T} = \frac{3mR^2\dot{\theta}_1^2}{4} + \frac{3mR^2\dot{\theta}_2^2}{4} + mR^2\dot{\theta}_1\dot{\theta}_2

The potential energy of the system is:

V = m g y \mathcal{V} = -mgy

Applying Lagrange's equations by treating θ 1 \theta_1 and θ 2 \theta_2 as generalised coordinates, gives the following equations of motion. I am leaving out this computation. The equations are:

1.5 θ ¨ 1 + θ ¨ 2 = g R 1.5 \ddot{\theta}_1 + \ddot{\theta}_2 = \frac{g}{R} θ ¨ 1 + 1.5 θ ¨ 2 = g R \ddot{\theta}_1 + 1.5\ddot{\theta}_2 = \frac{g}{R}

Solving for the lower cylinder's angular acceleration about it's COM gives:

θ ¨ 2 = 2 g 5 R \ddot{\theta}_2 = \frac{2g}{5R}

Now, finally, one can compute the net torque experienced by the lower cylinder about the COG as follows. Let the tension in each string is T T . Then:

2 T R = m R 2 2 θ ¨ 2 2TR = \frac{mR^2}{2} \ddot{\theta}_2 T = 0.1 m g \implies T = 0.1 mg

@Karan Chatrath in the new problem, can't you give simply the value of v ( t ) v(t) ?
By the way what is v ( t ) v(t)
Is it 1 π e ( t a ) 2 \frac{1}{\sqrt{π}}e^{-(\frac{t}{a})^{2}} .

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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In the wikipedia page I shared, skip to the section 'Definitions'. The function is defined there.

Karan Chatrath - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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@Karan Chatrath Your function is \infty at 0 and 0 at all other value?
Ye kaisa function hai?

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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@Talulah Riley Yes, that is the function. It is also called the impulse function. There is more than one way of solving this problem. If I would have given a standard source voltage function, this problem wouldn't be as interesting. There are a lot of conceptual insights to be found while solving this, according to me.

Karan Chatrath - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath to time jaise hi 0.000001 second hoga voltage to zero ho jaayega. Phir kya karoge??

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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@Talulah Riley Yeh ab aap socho.

Also, search beyond that Wikipedia page that I shared. Working with this function is easier than you think. I am sure you will find atleast one very interesting property that you can easily use.

Karan Chatrath - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath What are doing currently. Like I am in class 12 , what you are doing?
You will not loose any personality information . Don't worry.

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

@Karan Chatrath Mujhe aap bas v ( t ) v(t) bata do, please. Baaki kaam phir mera

Talulah Riley - 7 months, 4 weeks ago

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