Symmetrically Bounded?

Calculus Level 2

If a a and b b are reals such that a 1 n b a + 1 n a-\dfrac { 1 }{ n } \le b \le a+\dfrac { 1 }{ n } for all positive integers n n , then which of the following is true?

a < b a<b a = b a=b a > b a>b It's impossible to tell

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6 solutions

Consider the first inequality, that is, a 1 n b a - \dfrac{1}{n} \leq b

Taking n n \to \infty , and noting that lim n 1 n = 0 \lim_{n \to \infty}\dfrac{1}{n} = 0 (as a consequence of the Archimedian property), we deduce that a b a \leq b

Similarly, the other inequality gives b a b \leq a

Hence, we conclude that a = b a = b

Ivan Koswara
Dec 26, 2016

One of the most fundamental properties of the real numbers is the Archimedean property : if a number x 0 x \ge 0 satisfies that x 1 n x \le \frac{1}{n} for all positive integer n n , then x = 0 x = 0 . In some constructions of real numbers, this is a theorem that follows from the basic axioms; in other constructions, this is taken as an axiom (so the set of real numbers is an object that satisfies certain properties, including Archimedean property).

With this, the proof is rather straightforward. First, we need to prove a few of the most basic properties, like commutativity/associativity/inverse of addition and stuff. Next, we need to show that if x y x \le y for some reals x , y x, y , then x + z y + z x + z \le y + z for all real z z ; also, if x y x \le y , then y x -y \le -x . With this, we can now represent b = a + c b = a + c , so the inequalities become a 1 n a + c a + 1 n a - \frac{1}{n} \le a + c \le a + \frac{1}{n} for all positive integer n n ; if we can show 1 n c 1 n -\frac{1}{n} \le c \le \frac{1}{n} implies c = 0 c = 0 , we're done. But this final part can be done by Archimedean property as well; c 1 n c \le \frac{1}{n} means c 0 c \le 0 , and 1 n c -\frac{1}{n} \le c means c 1 n -c \le \frac{1}{n} , so c 0 -c \le 0 , so 0 c 0 \le c . Thus 0 c 0 0 \le c \le 0 , and we can show that c = 0 c = 0 . This shows that a = b a = b .

Chew-Seong Cheong
Dec 29, 2016

Relevant wiki: Squeeze Theorem

Since the inequality a 1 n b a + 1 n a - \dfrac 1n \le b \le a + \dfrac 1n is true for all positive integers n n , then it is true for:

lim n ( a 1 n ) b lim n ( a + 1 n ) a b a By squeeze theorem a = b \begin{aligned} \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(a - \dfrac 1n\right) & \le b \le \lim_{n \to \infty} \left(a + \dfrac 1n\right) \\ a & \le b \le a & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{By squeeze theorem} \\ \implies & \boxed{a=b} \end{aligned}

Reynan Henry
Dec 23, 2016

let say that a > b a>b so we must have a fix real number ϵ \epsilon such that a = b + ϵ a=b+\epsilon . Define N = 1 ϵ N=\lceil \frac{1}{\epsilon} \rceil if the statement is true how about when n > N n>N ? a contradiction now let say a < b a<b so a = b ϵ a=b-\epsilon . Define M = 1 ϵ M=\lfloor \frac{1}{\epsilon} \rfloor how about n < M n<M ? a contradiction so a = b a=b

I don't really understand your solution. Are you implying that because no such fixed ϵ \epsilon exist, the statement is false?

Christopher Boo - 4 years, 5 months ago

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yes i mean if you asume that a > b a>b or a < b a<b you will get a contradiction

Reynan Henry - 4 years, 5 months ago

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i doubt that strongly ! i think you're explanation is wrong the answer should be Can't tell ! as all are possibilities either a>b or a=b or even a<b

A Former Brilliant Member - 4 years, 5 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member no the answer should be a = b a=b you can use limit lim n a 1 n lim n b lim n a + 1 n \lim_{n\to \infty} a-\frac{1}{n} \le \lim_{n\to \infty} b\le \lim_{n\to \infty} a+\frac{1}{n} this means that a b a a\le b \le a or a = b a=b

Reynan Henry - 4 years, 5 months ago
Irina Stanciu
Dec 30, 2016

If a=b we've got: a 1 n a a + 1 n a-\frac{1}{n}\leq a\leq a+\frac{1}{n} By decreasing with a a the entire inequality we will get: 1 n 0 1 n \frac{-1}{n}\leq 0\leq \frac{1}{n} which is true.

. .
Feb 18, 2021

a 1 n b a + 1 n a n 1 b n a n + 1 a = b a - \frac { 1 } { n } \leq b \leq a + \frac { 1 } { n } \rightarrow an - 1 \leq bn \leq an + 1 \rightarrow \boxed { a = b } we get.

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