Simplifying Error

Algebra Level 3

3 5 \LARGE \sqrt{3} - \sqrt{5}

Which one of these choices is equivalent to the expression above?

8 + 2 15 \sqrt{8 + 2 \sqrt{15}} 5 3 \sqrt{5} - \sqrt{3} 8 2 15 \sqrt{8 - 2 \sqrt{15}} none of these choices

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5 solutions

Cj Lungstrum
May 14, 2015

The quantity given is negative while all of the numerical answer choices are positive.

Moderator note:

Yes correct, it's pretty obvious the expression in question is negative while the choices are all positive in value. Bonus question: What is the minimal degree polynomial f f with integer coefficients such that it has root 3 5 \sqrt 3 - \sqrt 5 ?

For example, if x = 3 x = \sqrt 3 is a root of the polynomial g g , then g ( x ) = x 2 3 g(x) = x^2 - 3 .

But I did it like this

3 5 = ( 3 5 ) 2 = 8 2 15 \sqrt{3}-\sqrt{5} = \sqrt{({\sqrt{3}-\sqrt{5}})^2} = \sqrt{8-2 \sqrt{15}}

Why doesn't it tally with the original value?Please help!

Anik Mandal - 6 years, 1 month ago

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x 2 = x \sqrt { { x }^{ 2 } } =\left| x \right| , you are converting the negative value to a positive value which is the reason of error.

Rohit Ner - 6 years, 1 month ago

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thanks! @Rohit Ner

Hiron Roy - 6 years ago

Thanks! @Rohit Ner

Anik Mandal - 6 years ago

Not true. Because x%(2/2) will give us both the +ve and the -ve values of x.

Raman Kapri - 5 years, 2 months ago

|x| isnt true, because √x² can be negative or positive

farhan hafiz - 6 years ago

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@Farhan Hafiz Actually, no, the square root function never has a negative value. Tack on a plus-or-minus on the front and that's different.

Whitney Clark - 5 years, 7 months ago

The question itself gave the answer away. You just made a "Simplifying Error" ...

Arian Tashakkor - 6 years, 1 month ago

We knkw that it is imposaible to have a neative number in a square root so the answer should be none of the choices.

Christian Daang - 6 years ago

Because the original value is negative. Squaring and rooting would remove the negativity, so the correct answer would be : - \sqrt{8 - 2\sqrt{15}}

That's correct! I did the same thing.

Sabooh Husnain - 6 years ago

It's equivalent to 8 2 15 -\sqrt{8-2\sqrt{15}} .

Daniel Ellesar - 5 years, 7 months ago

One of the roots of 5 is negative, as is one of the roots of 3 . So both answer 1 and answer 2 are correct. If you want us to restrict the domain to nonnegative reals, you should really say so.

Alec Brady - 4 years, 3 months ago

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You are correct.

Henryk Kowalczyk - 3 years, 5 months ago

Wrong. The square root symbol refers to the principal root ONLY. Thus, the square root of 4 is 2, not both 2 and -2.

Whitney Clark - 3 years, 5 months ago

(√3- √5 )^2 =(√(8-2√15) )^2 ∴ √3 - √5 = ± √(8-2√15)

Santhanam Santhanam - 4 years, 3 months ago

this have contradiction with your other question...

Fa Faiz Kurousagi - 4 years, 2 months ago

@Brilliant Mathematics , the moderator note has the "positive" and "negative" mixed up in the first line. Please correct it. :)

Vinayak Srivastava - 2 months ago

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Done. Thank you for spotting my mistake.

Brilliant Mathematics Staff - 2 months ago

No such eq. Exists

Rishabh Tiwari - 5 years, 3 months ago
Arian Tashakkor
May 16, 2015

Challenge master's bonus question solution:

Let's assume that r r is the root of such polynomial,hence:

r = 3 5 r 2 = 8 2 1 5 r 2 8 = 2 1 5 r=\sqrt3 - \sqrt5 \rightarrow r^2 = 8 -2\sqrt15 \rightarrow r^2-8=-2\sqrt15

r 4 + 64 16 r 2 = 30 r 4 16 r 2 + 34 = 0 r^4+64-16r^2=30 \rightarrow r^4-16r^2+34=0

Hence the equation x 4 16 x 2 + 34 = 0 x^4-16x^2+34=0 has at least one root which is 3 5 \sqrt3 - \sqrt5

And of course it's degree is 4.

\quad

As for our dear challenge master's second bonus question:

By false assumption , suppose that 3 5 \sqrt{3} - \sqrt{5} is rational.Hence it can be written the form of m n \frac{m}{n} where m m and n n are coprime integers.Now we know that if g c d ( m , n ) = 1 g c d ( m 2 , n 2 ) = 1 gcd(m,n)=1 \rightarrow gcd(m^2,n^2)=1 hence , ,let m 2 n 2 = p q \frac{m^2}{n^2} = \frac{p}{q} where g c d ( p , q ) = 1 gcd (p,q)=1 thus, we have:

\quad

p 2 q 2 16 p q = 34 p 2 q 16 p q 2 q 2 = 34 \frac{p^2}{q^2}-16 \frac{p}{q}=-34 \rightarrow \frac{p^2q-16pq^2}{q^2}=-34

( p q ) ( p 16 q ) q 2 = 34 ( p ) ( p 16 q ) q = 34 \rightarrow \frac{(pq)(p-16q)}{q^2} = -34 \rightarrow \frac{(p)(p-16q)} {q} = -34

q p q p 16 q \rightarrow q|p \lor q|p-16q

\quad

Case 1:if q p q|p

Directly contradicts our assumption of g c d ( p , q ) = 1 gcd(p,q)=1

Case 2: if q p 16 q q|p-16q

q p 16 q q|p-16q

q 16 q q|16q

q p 16 q + 16 q q p \Rightarrow q|p-16q+16q \rightarrow q|p

Which is again also a contradiction.

\quad

Hence 3 5 \sqrt{3} - \sqrt{5} is indeed irrational.

Moderator note:

Bonus question: With this polynomial, can you prove that 3 5 \sqrt 3 - \sqrt 5 is irrational?

Addendum: I was thinking of Rational Root Theorem (RRT) but the downside of RRT is that you need to go through the labor of computation. Well done.

One thing... i think this problem has a flawed answer.

{root(3) }^2 + {root(5)}^2 - 2 * root (3) * root(5) = {root (3) - root (5)} ^2

=> 8 - 2* root(15) = {root (3) - root (5)} ^2 ............... @Paul Rayan Longhas

Ananya Aaniya - 4 years, 10 months ago

I also think there was a mistake squaring the equation r^2 - 8 = -2sqrt(15). The square of the RHS is 4*15 = 60, not 30. The final equation should be x^4 -16x^2 + 4=0.

Eric Lucas - 4 years, 2 months ago
Kevin Silva
Feb 14, 2016

What I did was square the entire term. That's it.

If you square the entire term then you have to bring square root.From that view point solving the equation, option (a) should be correct

Tahmid Chowdhury - 4 years, 9 months ago

Why option A is wrong?

Abhinav Yadav - 4 years, 2 months ago

What on earth does "you have to bring square root" mean? What store can I buy "square root" at? And "square root" of what is intended? Please strive for CLARITY in remarks and explanations???

Doug Reiss - 3 years, 9 months ago

There was a mistake in squaring r 2-8. Final equation is x 4-16x*2+4=0

Ganga Raju Kalidindi - 3 years ago

why can't it be A? Squaring the entire term and taking square root over it would give A

Anjana Sraj - 3 years ago
Ahmed Ali
Jul 3, 2019

Right answer: square root of 3 - square root of 5

Joe Potillor
Dec 5, 2016

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the sqrt(3) both positive and negative?

Samantha Block - 4 years, 2 months ago

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I answered 'B', just as I gather you have done, and was informed that I was stumped. Apparently Brilliant has decided the radical sign also implies absolute value. That isn't universally accepted.

Tom Spencer - 3 years, 4 months ago

in your working @ Joe Potillor, the sqrt of 4 is required

bill mbogho - 4 years, 2 months ago

Why the answer is not 1st one as, Let, √3 - √5 = x x² = 8 - 2√15 x = √( 8 - 2√15 ) √3 - √5 = √( 8 - 2√15 )

Sparsh Gupta - 3 years, 6 months ago

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numerically √3 - √5 = 1.732-2.236 = -0.504 numerically √( 8 - 2√15 ) = +- 0.504 ie 1 root = -0.504 so why is √( 8 - 2√15 ) not correct?

chris cronin - 3 years, 5 months ago

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I think it is because √a indicates only the positive root of a while -√a indicates the negative root. This illustrates for me the importance of remembering that a^2 = b^2 does not directly imply a = b.

Doug McKenzie - 2 years, 11 months ago

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