Sinusoidal Wire Magnetics (part 2)

A piece of wire has the following shape 0 x 2 π 0≤x≤2π , y = s i n x y=sinx , z = 0 z=0 from position A A to B B . The wire carries a current of I = 4 π A I=4π A . What is the magnitude of the magnetic flux density B B at test point N ( x , y , z ) = ( 1 , 2 , 3 ) N(x,y,z) = (1,2,3)

Details and Assumptions 1) Magnetic permeability μ 0 = 1 \mu_{0}=1 .


The answer is 0.315.

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2 solutions

Steven Chase
Mar 17, 2020
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import math

# Scan resolution

N = 10**6

######################################################

# Constants

u0 = 1.0
I = 4.0*math.pi
Bmult = u0*I/(4.0*math.pi)

dx = 2.0*math.pi/N

######################################################

# Test point

Nx = 1.0
Ny = 2.0
Nz = 3.0

######################################################
######################################################

# Determine B field using Biot Savart
Bx = 0.0
By = 0.0
Bz = 0.0

x = 0.0

while x <= 2.0*math.pi:         

    y = math.sin(x)             # coordinates
    z = 0.0

    dy = math.cos(x) * dx        # path displacement (components of dL)
    dz = 0.0

    rx = x - Nx                  # vector to test point
    ry = y - Ny
    rz = z - Nz

    r = math.sqrt(rx**2.0 + ry**2.0 + rz**2.0)  # rmag 

    crossx = dy*rz - dz*ry      # dL cross r from Biot Savart
    crossy = -(dx*rz - dz*rx)
    crossz = dx*ry - dy*rx

    dBx = Bmult*crossx/(r**3.0)  # infinitesimal B field contributions
    dBy = Bmult*crossy/(r**3.0)
    dBz = Bmult*crossz/(r**3.0)

    Bx = Bx + dBx
    By = By + dBy
    Bz = Bz + dBz

    x = x + dx

######################################################
######################################################

# Print results

print N
print ""
print Bx
print By
print Bz
print ""
B = math.sqrt(Bx**2.0 + By**2.0 + Bz**2.0)

print B

######################################################
######################################################

# Results

#>>> 
#10000

#-0.00114005292742
#0.295197809724
#-0.111140409114

#0.315428656156

#>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
#>>> 
#100000

#-0.00112782317975
#0.295185579976
#-0.111144630188

#0.315418654221

#>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
#>>> 
#1000000

#-0.00112587977031
#0.295183636568
#-0.111143303503

#0.315416361048
#>>> 

Karan Chatrath
Mar 17, 2020

Very nice problem:

Consider a point on the wire having a position vector:

r p = x i ^ + sin x j ^ + 0 k ^ \vec{r}_p = x \hat{i} + \sin{x} \hat{j} + 0 \hat{k}

The point of interest is:

r c = 1 i ^ + 2 j ^ + 3 k ^ \vec{r}_c = 1 \hat{i} + 2 \hat{j} + 3 \hat{k}

A vector joining these two points directed towards the point of interest is:

r = r c r p \vec{r}=\vec{r}_c-\vec{r}_p

The current is assumed to flow rightwards along the sine curve. An arc length element vector along the curve is:

d s = ( 1 i ^ + cos x j ^ + 0 k ^ ) d x d\vec{s} = \left(1 \hat{i} + \cos{x} \hat{j} + 0 \hat{k}\right)dx

From here, Biot-Savart Law is applied, which is:

d B = μ o I 4 π d s × r r 3 d\vec{B} = \frac{\mu_o I}{4 \pi} \frac{ d\vec{s} \times \vec{r}}{\lvert \vec{r} \rvert^3}

Substituting and simplifying gives the expressions:

d B = d B x i ^ + d B y j ^ + d B z k ^ d\vec{B} = dB_x \hat{i} + dB_y \hat{j} + dB_z \hat{k}

Where:

d B x = 3 cos ( x ) d x ( ( x 1 ) 2 + ( sin ( x ) 2 ) 2 + 9 ) 3 / 2 dB_x = \frac{3\,\cos\left(x\right) \ dx}{{\left({\left(x-1\right)}^2+{\left(\sin\left(x\right)-2\right)}^2+9\right)}^{3/2}} d B y = 3 d x ( ( x 1 ) 2 + ( sin ( x ) 2 ) 2 + 9 ) 3 / 2 dB_y = -\frac{3 \ dx}{{\left({\left(x-1\right)}^2+{\left(\sin\left(x\right)-2\right)}^2+9\right)}^{3/2}} d B z = ( cos ( x ) ( x 1 ) sin ( x ) + 2 ) d x ( ( x 1 ) 2 + ( sin ( x ) 2 ) 2 + 9 ) 3 / 2 dB_z = \frac{\left(\cos\left(x\right)\,\left(x-1\right)-\sin\left(x\right)+2\right) \ dx}{{\left({\left(x-1\right)}^2+{\left(\sin\left(x\right)-2\right)}^2+9\right)}^{3/2}}

Finally:

B x = 0 2 π 3 cos ( x ) d x ( ( x 1 ) 2 + ( sin ( x ) 2 ) 2 + 9 ) 3 / 2 B_x = \int_{0}^{2 \pi} \frac{3\,\cos\left(x\right) \ dx}{{\left({\left(x-1\right)}^2+{\left(\sin\left(x\right)-2\right)}^2+9\right)}^{3/2}} B y = 0 2 π 3 d x ( ( x 1 ) 2 + ( sin ( x ) 2 ) 2 + 9 ) 3 / 2 B_y = \int_{0}^{2 \pi} -\frac{3 \ dx}{{\left({\left(x-1\right)}^2+{\left(\sin\left(x\right)-2\right)}^2+9\right)}^{3/2}} B z = 0 2 π ( cos ( x ) ( x 1 ) sin ( x ) + 2 ) d x ( ( x 1 ) 2 + ( sin ( x ) 2 ) 2 + 9 ) 3 / 2 B_z = \int_{0}^{2 \pi} \frac{\left(\cos\left(x\right)\,\left(x-1\right)-\sin\left(x\right)+2\right) \ dx}{{\left({\left(x-1\right)}^2+{\left(\sin\left(x\right)-2\right)}^2+9\right)}^{3/2}}

The net magnetic field at the point of interest is:

B = B x i ^ + B y j ^ + B z k ^ \vec{B} = B_x \hat{i} + B_y \hat{j} + B_z \hat{k}

And the required magnitude is:

B = B x 2 + B y 2 + B z 2 0.3154 \boxed{\lvert \vec{B} \rvert = \sqrt{ B_x^2 + B_y^2 + B_z^2} \approx 0.3154}

@Karan Chatrath your B x = B x B_{x}=-B_{x} and for also y and z axis I got values. Well, I don't know why this is happening . I know while it doesn't matter because we have to do square. But opposite sign is coming in my solution. Can you tell me why??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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Check your sign convention for current. And see how I defined r \vec{r} . Maybe the difference is there.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

Also, I must say that I admire your creativity in posting problems. I enjoy the questions. You can even think of questions other than E&M. Maybe try mechanics (gravitation, moment of inertia of complex volumes, kinetics).

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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Thankyou sir. Sir I have taken r = r p r c \vec{r}=\vec{r}_p-\vec{r}_c but when the direction of current is given in the question then it will effect the expression. Am I right??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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Yes, the current direction has an effect on the field direction

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath the latest question which you reported I just want to know in which direction you are getting forces . Will the forces in + Y +Y and + Z +Z axis be zero??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member @Karan Chatrath I have made a big assumption that only in x direction force will be there. Is it correct . Here I have attached my solution.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member @Karan chatrath that F x F-x direction force is the answer.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

@A Former Brilliant Member Recheck your expression for d F x dF_x . Also, I get force along X as zero. The net force is along Z. Wolfram should not fail to calculate the last integral.

I checked the answer using code also.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath I again rechecked my equation and it's coming the same. No mistake encountered. F x F_{x} F y F_{y} F z F_{z} This type of unsual things come when I write integrals correctly with proper limits. Only wolfram is showing F x F_{x}

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Expression that I get for d F x dF_x :

d F x = cos ( θ ) ( sin ( x ) x cos ( x ) ) ( cos ( θ ) 2 + x 2 + ( sin ( x ) sin ( θ ) ) 2 ) 3 / 2 d θ d x dF_x = -\frac{\cos\left(\theta\right)\,\left(\sin\left(x\right)-x\,\cos\left(x\right)\right)}{{\left({\cos\left(\theta\right)}^2+x^2+{\left(\sin\left(x\right)-\sin\left(\theta\right)\right)}^2\right)}^{3/2}} d\theta \ dx

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath

Above is the integral for F z F_z .Here y = θ y = \theta

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath Ok i will solve the question from starting again . While in the mean time can you find mistake in solution?? Please

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Mistake should be when you compute d B d\vec{B} . That expression looks odd to me.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath Ok sir I have check several times. can you post your solution from starting as I have posted??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member It will take it too long to type, besides, I do not type the steps in between. Maybe much later, I can. Also, check your expression for \dB z \dB_z .

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath I think that while calculating the cross product in the d B d\vec{B} expression, you have made an error. I have verified my answer with code also.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath You do not need to type just click photo of your whole solution and paste it . It will help me a lot. It will not take more than 5 min . Please

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member I am sorry, I do not have that notepad with me. I would have to write it all over.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath sir write the solution in page and click photo and paste it here

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Finally I find the mistake. You were correct the mistake is in d B \vec{dB} After correcting the mistake ,i get the forces as

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Karan Chatrath Please sir can you help me this time. As you have earlier said I have to do calculations very carefully but also this time my answer is coming wrong of the new question solenoid exercise. Here is my solution. Can you find the mistake

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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The mistake you are making is that you are calculating turns per unit length, etc. You do not need to treat the problem this way. Normally, the reason why we approach the problem by calculating turns per unit length is that the curve of the solenoid is not exactly parameterised. In this problem, an exact parameterisation of the solenoid is given. Treat this just as any other Biot-Savart law exercise. The resulting integral you obtain should be a single integral.

Nevertheless, your answer is close to the correct value.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath Thank you sir very much. Sir but my 1 try is left and i want to upload the solution. Can you tell me how can i take a random point on that solenoid??? Please tell that random point after that i will definitely post a very beautiful solution.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member A point on the solenoid:

r p = cos θ i ^ + sin θ j ^ + ( 10 + θ 100 π ) k ^ \vec{r}_p = \cos{\theta} \hat{i} + \sin{\theta} \hat{j} + \left(-10+\frac{\theta}{100 \pi}\right)\hat{k} d r p = ( sin θ i ^ + cos θ j ^ + ( 1 100 π ) k ^ ) d θ d\vec{r}_p = \left(-\sin{\theta} \hat{i} + \cos{\theta} \hat{j} + \left(\frac{1}{100 \pi}\right)\hat{k}\right) \ d\theta

The second vector is an elementary arc-length vector tangential to the point on the solenoid.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath Thankyou sir very much.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath I am still getting my answer which i tried in my second try. Therefore my third try is still remaining. I checked several times this solution which I solved by your method. Can you find the mistake.???

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member You are integrating from 0 to 2000. You must integrate from 0 to 2000 π 2000 \pi . Re-read the question carefully

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath Sir if I integrate it from 0 to 2000π then according to the limit the height of the cylinder is 20π but the height of cylinder is 20??.And Sir I want to ask one more thing which I forgot to ask is that in your expression of r p \vec{r_{p}} in the k part it should be 10 + θ 100 π -10+\frac{\theta}{100π}

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Yes, you are right: It should be:

r p = cos θ i ^ + sin θ j ^ + ( 10 + θ 100 π ) k ^ \vec{r}_p = \cos{\theta} \hat{i} + \sin{\theta} \hat{j} + \left(-10+\frac{\theta}{100 \pi}\right)\hat{k} d r p = ( sin θ i ^ + cos θ j ^ + ( 1 100 π ) k ^ ) d θ d\vec{r}_p = \left(-\sin{\theta} \hat{i} + \cos{\theta} \hat{j} + \left(\frac{1}{100 \pi}\right)\hat{k}\right) \ d\theta

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath After putting the limits correctly I am still getting my answer as B 1 B 2 = 212.442 \frac{B_{1}}{B_{2}}=212.442 For B 1 B_{1} For B 2 B_{2}

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Calculate all the components of the magnetic field. Other components are not zero.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath Also, please check your calculations carefully. That I have not done.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath @Karan Chatrath ok sir Thank you, sir but it's very starnge that magnetic field has components also . Well I was assuming that it will be only in k direction.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Karan Chatrath . Is wolfram giving answers of F x F_{x} , F y F_{y} . In my wolfram it is not giving.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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Well done. Glad you found the error. To answer your question, no, Wolfram does not evaluate those integrals. I solved them using code and noticed that they are both zero. I think your result for F z F_z should be similar to what I obtain, now

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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Yes sir it's similiar. Thankyou

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member @Karan chatrath I have reposted the question

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member https://brilliant.org/problems/infinite-wire-magnetics/ please can you post the solution of this question . Code bhi chalega.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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