Sliding Rod!

Rigid uniform Rod is pulled slightly ( Gently ) at the bottom at time t = 0 t=0 . Then Find the angle θ \theta from Horizontal as shown at which Rod will Loose it's contact with Vertical Smooth wall . If your answer can be expressed as : tan θ = a b c \tan { \theta } \quad =\quad \cfrac { a\sqrt { b } }{ c } . Then Find a + b + c a+b+c


Details and assumptions

\bullet All surfaces are perfectly smooth.

\bullet g c d ( a , c ) = 1 gcd(a,c)=1

\bullet b b is square free integer and a , b , c a , b , c all are integers.

This is Original
This is Part of my Set Deepanshu's Mechanics Blast


The answer is 12.

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2 solutions

Deepanshu Gupta
Dec 13, 2014

we can solve this question by IAOR ( Instantaneous Centre of rotation )

Using energy conservation in ICR frame : ( Since Rod is in pure Rotational motion about ICR )

m g L 2 ( 1 sin φ ) = 1 2 I I C R ω 2 m g L 2 ( 1 sin φ ) = 1 2 ( m L 2 12 + m L 2 4 ) ω 2 ω 2 = 3 g L ( 1 sin φ ) . . . ( 1 ) \cfrac { mgL }{ 2 } (1-\sin { \varphi } )\quad =\quad \cfrac { 1 }{ 2 } { I }_{ ICR }{ \omega }^{ 2 }\\ \cfrac { mgL }{ 2 } (1-\sin { \varphi } )\quad =\quad \cfrac { 1 }{ 2 } (\cfrac { m{ L }^{ 2 } }{ 12 } +\cfrac { m{ L }^{ 2 } }{ 4 } ){ \omega }^{ 2 }\\ { \omega }^{ 2 }=\quad \cfrac { 3g }{ L } (1-\sin { \varphi } )\quad \quad \quad .\quad .\quad .\quad (1) .


α = ω d ω d φ = 3 g 2 L ( cos φ ) . . . . ( 2 ) a C = ω 2 L 2 = 3 g 2 ( 1 sin φ ) . . . . ( 3 ) a T = L 2 α = 3 g 4 ( cos φ ) . . . . . ( 4 ) \alpha =\quad \omega \cfrac { d\omega }{ d\varphi } \quad =\quad -\cfrac { 3g }{ 2L } (\cos { \varphi } )\quad \quad .\quad .\quad .\quad .\quad (2)\\ { a }_{ C }=\quad { \omega }^{ 2 }\cfrac { L }{ 2 } \quad =\quad \cfrac { 3g }{ 2 } (1-\sin { \varphi } )\quad \quad .\quad .\quad .\quad .\quad (3)\\ { a }_{ T }=\quad \cfrac { L }{ 2 } \alpha \quad =\quad -\cfrac { 3g }{ 4 } (\cos { \varphi } )\quad \quad \quad .\quad .\quad .\quad .\quad .(4) .


Rod will Loose it's Contact with the wall if N 1 = 0 a c o m , n e t , H o r i z o n t a l = 0 { N }_{ 1 }\quad =\quad 0\\ \\ \Rightarrow \quad { a }_{ com,net,\quad Horizontal }\quad =\quad 0 .


Resolve net acceleration in vertical and horizontal direction and equating horizontal component to zero , so we should get ,


sin θ = 2 3 , tan θ = 2 5 5 \sin { \theta } \quad =\quad \cfrac { 2 }{ 3 } \quad ,\quad \\ \Rightarrow \boxed { \tan { \theta } \quad =\quad \cfrac { 2\sqrt { 5 } }{ 5 } } . Q.E.D

Nice solution. I think using concept of IAOR gives the answer quite quickly.

satvik pandey - 6 years, 6 months ago

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Yes it Saves much Time , But Your approach is also Nice !

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 6 months ago

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Thanks! :)

satvik pandey - 6 years, 6 months ago

here d w(omega)/d(theta ) is negative , I think the equation (2) is wrong

Atharva Sarage - 5 years, 10 months ago

Best solution.

jinay patel - 6 years, 4 months ago

Isn't the ICR changing as the rod's position changes ? Shouldn't there be a pseudo force due to its acceleration ?

Devang Agarwal - 5 years, 4 months ago

This is what I did, but I have a doubt - Don't we need to consider the work done by the normal forces while writing the conservation-of-energy equation?

Pratik Shastri - 6 years, 6 months ago

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No , it will be zero Because By using work-energy equation: System(Rod + Earth): Reference ( ICR) Since ICR is momentarily at rest So we Don't Consider any Pseudo Force at COM of Rod

w e x t = E f , M e c h a n i c a l E i , M e c h a n i c a l w e x t = τ I C R d θ τ I C R = τ N 1 + τ N 2 τ N 1 = τ N 2 = 0 { w }_{ ext }\quad =\quad \sum { { E }_{ f,Mechanical } } \quad -\quad \sum { { E }_{ i,Mechanical } } \\ \\ { w }_{ ext }\quad =\quad \int { { \tau }_{ ICR }\quad d\theta } \quad \\ \\ { \tau }_{ ICR }\quad \quad =\quad { \tau }_{ { N }_{ 1 } }\quad +\quad { \tau }_{ { N }_{ 2 } }\quad \\ { \tau }_{ { N }_{ 1 } }\quad =\quad { \tau }_{ { N }_{ 2 } }\quad =\quad 0 .

Since They Pass Through The Point of Rotation (ICR)

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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One can qualititatively say that normal reactions dont do work as the displacement of the bodies part immediately in contact is at 90 degree, to force, but your method is a good way to state that,, though its the same,, its good to see that you arrive at the same result through both ways :)

Mvs Saketh - 6 years, 5 months ago

Nice :) I don't know why I didn't think of torque as τ d θ \displaystyle\int \tau \ \mathrm{d}\theta . My bad.

Pratik Shastri - 6 years, 5 months ago

The Work done by N1 is +ve

The work done by N2 is negative so they cancel out.

This is true because,

If you use the Torque equation about ICoR,

1/2(MgLcos(theta))=I*(alpha).

You get the same equation for alpha.

A Former Brilliant Member - 6 years, 5 months ago

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No ! In which Fame You are talking ? If You are Talking in ICR frame Then work done by Normal forces are individualy zero . You are saying wrong that work done by N1 is +ve and N2 is -ve , Infact work done by N1 = 0 and N2=0 in ICR frame ! So think once again !

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Deepanshu Gupta Im talking from the point where the two walls meet.(call it X)

the center of mass of the rod moves away from X due to force N1 as displacement and force direction is the same work done is +ve But in Y direction the center of mass of rod is coming down towards the floor but N2 is in opposite direction so work done is -ve.

If work done by N1 is zero why would the center of mass be displaced at all? (The only force acting the x direction is N1)

A Former Brilliant Member - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member No Dear , Did You Know what is Basic Definition of Work done ?

It States That Work done By any Force equals to : W f = f . d x cos θ W_{ f }\quad =\quad f.dx\cos { \theta } .

where

θ \theta = angle between displacement(of Point of application) vector and force

d x dx = displacment of Point of application force

So While Calculating work done For Extended Bodies (Like Here it is Rod) You can't apply Force Centre of mass ! You have to seen displacement of point of application of Force not the Centre of mass of body !

And You Say that why Centre of mass is shifting forward Then it is Because of Normal Force it will move forward but it doesn't mean That work is also done by Normal force

So here N 1 0 & N 2 0 { N }_{ 1 }\neq 0\quad \& \quad { N }_{ 2 }\neq 0 . But

W N 1 = W N 2 = 0 { W }_{ { N }_{ 1 } }={ W }_{ { N }_{ 2 } }=0 .

Because Displacement Vector of point of application of force and Force are orthogonal ( at right angle) So cos θ = 0 \cos { \theta } \quad =\quad 0 .


So Be careful That : i f W = 0 f = 0 if\quad W\quad =\quad 0\quad \nRightarrow \quad f=0 .


For Better Understanding Explain why work done By friction on Rolling Sphere is Zero ?

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

here d w(omega)/d(theta ) is negative

Atharva Sarage - 5 years, 10 months ago

it's no good , i got the aNSWER 2/ROOT5 I THOUGHT THE ANSWER WAS NOT IN THE FORM I GOT SO, I DISCUSSED SOLUTION :'(

A Former Brilliant Member - 4 years, 4 months ago

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So you should learn a lesson.In an exam consider each aspect of the question.If you solved this in an exam and didn't mark the answer you will be kicking yourself for what you did.Best of luck and sorry if I was a bit harsh.

Spandan Senapati - 4 years, 1 month ago

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why pseudo acceleration for IAOR not taken into account? while calculating the horizontal component of acceleration of com why was the acceleration of IAOR not added????

sashank bonda - 4 years, 1 month ago

JEE just a few days far 😨

Sumanth R Hegde - 4 years, 1 month ago

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@Sumanth R Hegde Best of luck.......You are in which coaching.?

Spandan Senapati - 4 years, 1 month ago

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@Spandan Senapati I'm in BASE coaching institute in Karnataka.

Sumanth R Hegde - 4 years, 1 month ago

@Sumanth R Hegde ya i don't think i can pass :(

A Former Brilliant Member - 4 years, 1 month ago

@Sumanth R Hegde Hey can you give some hints on calculating the definite integral of a r c t a n s i n x arctansinx .With the limits from 0 π / 2 0-π/2

Spandan Senapati - 4 years, 1 month ago

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@Spandan Senapati nobody talk to a loser , huh ?

A Former Brilliant Member - 4 years, 1 month ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Ur not a loser! Getting low marks in an exam is no where close to being a reflection of ur intelligence!

Sumanth R Hegde - 4 years, 1 month ago

thnx.........

A Former Brilliant Member - 4 years, 1 month ago

shouldn't there be any pseudo force as iaor is changing with time?

sashank bonda - 4 years, 2 months ago
Satvik Pandey
Dec 14, 2014

This is second time I am posting this figure. :D

img img From the figure

V B C = l ω 2 { V }_{ BC }=\frac { l\omega }{ 2 }

V B C = l ω 2 s i n θ i ^ + l ω 2 c o s θ j ^ { V }_{ BC }=\frac { l\omega }{ 2 } sin\theta \hat { i } +\frac { l\omega }{ 2 } cos\theta \hat { j }

and V A C = l ω 2 s i n θ i ^ l ω 2 c o s θ j ^ { V }_{ AC }=-\frac { l\omega }{ 2 } sin\theta \hat { i } -\frac { l\omega }{ 2 } cos\theta \hat { j }

As V B C = V B V C { V }_{ BC }={ V }_{ B }-{ V }_{ C } and V A C = V A V C { V }_{ AC }={ V }_{ A }-{ V }_{ C }

or V C = V B V B C { V }_{ C }={ V }_{ B }-{ V }_{ BC }

So V C j ^ = l ω 2 c o s θ j ^ { V }_{ C }\hat { j } =-\frac { l\omega }{ 2 } cos\theta \hat { j } (considering velocity in vertical direction only. We are doing this because V B j ^ = 0 { V }_{ B }\hat { j } =0 )

Similarly we can get

V C i ^ = l ω 2 s i n θ i ^ { V }_{ C }\hat { i } =\frac { l\omega }{ 2 } sin\theta \hat { i } ............(4)

So V C = l ω 2 s i n θ i ^ l ω 2 c o s θ j ^ { V }_{ C }=\frac { l\omega }{ 2 } sin\theta \hat { i } -\frac { l\omega }{ 2 } cos\theta \hat { j }

Also from conservation of energy

m g l 2 ( 1 s i n θ ) = 1 2 ( m v 2 + I C ω 2 ) mg\frac { l }{ 2 } (1-sin\theta )=\frac { 1 }{ 2 } \left( m{ v }^{ 2 }+{ I }_{ C }{ \omega }^{ 2 } \right) ......................(1)

Also V C = ( l ω 2 ) 2 { V }_{ C }={ \left( \frac { l\omega }{ 2 } \right) }^{ 2 } (we can get this from eq(4))

Putting this in eq-1 we get

ω 2 = 3 g l ( 1 s i n θ ) { \omega }^{ 2 }=\frac { 3g }{ l } (1-sin\theta ) ............(2)

When the rod looses contact with the vertical rod the Normal force acting on Rod becomes 0. So no horizontal force act on the rod after the moment the rod left contact with vertical wall. So acceleration of the CoM of the rod in horizontal direction is 0.

So d d t ( V C i ^ ) = d d t ( l ω 2 s i n θ i ^ ) = 0 { \frac { d }{ dt } (V }_{ C }\hat { i } )=\frac { d }{ dt } \left( \frac { l\omega }{ 2 } sin\theta \hat { i } \right) =0

So d d θ ( 3 g l ( 1 s i n θ ) s i n θ ) d θ d t = 0 \frac { d }{ d\theta } \left( \sqrt { \frac { 3g }{ l } (1-sin\theta ) } sin\theta \right) \frac { d\theta }{ dt } =0\\

or d d θ ( ( 1 s i n θ ) s i n θ ) = 0 \frac { d }{ d\theta } \left( \sqrt { (1-sin\theta ) } sin\theta \right) =0

or c o s θ ( 1 s i n θ ) = s i n θ c o s θ 2 ( 1 s i n θ ) cos\theta \sqrt { (1-sin\theta ) } =\frac { sin\theta cos\theta }{ 2\sqrt { (1-sin\theta ) } }

So s i n θ = 2 3 sin\theta =\frac { 2 }{ 3 }

or t a n θ = 2 5 5 tan\theta =\frac { 2\sqrt { 5 } }{ 5 } . :)

I almost did the same

SHASHANK GOEL - 6 years, 2 months ago

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