Square Root Sums

How many ordered pairs of non-negative integers ( a , b ) (a, b) are there such that a + b = 432 \sqrt{a} + \sqrt{b} = \sqrt{432} ?

Clarification: By definition, if x 0 x \geq 0 then x 0 \sqrt{x} \geq 0 .


The answer is 13.

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18 solutions

Tan Likai
May 20, 2014

Since 432 a = b \sqrt{432} - \sqrt{a} = \sqrt{b} , by squaring both sides we have 432 + a 2 432 a = b 432 + a - 2\sqrt{432a} = b . As 432 + a b 432 + a - b is an integer, 2 432 a 2\sqrt{432a} is an integer. Hence 432 a = 1 2 2 3 a = k 2 432a = 12^2 \cdot 3a = k^2 for some integer k. From this, we conclude that a is of the form 3 m 2 3m^2 , and also a 432 a \leq 432 . In this case, m 12 m \leq 12 .

Similarily, we can conclude that b = 3 n 2 b = 3n^2 , and thus we have to solve m 3 + n 3 = 12 3 m\sqrt{3} + n \sqrt{3} = 12 \sqrt{3} . This gives 13 integer solutions for (a, b) from m = 0 to 12.

[Slight edits for clarity - Calvin]

Almost every solution claimed without justification that we must have a = 3 m 2 a = 3m^2 and b = 3 n 2 b = 3n^2 .

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

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The solution asks for 'ordered pairs' thus (0,12) is different from (12,0) so shouldn't the answer be 12*2-1?

Raven Herd - 5 years, 11 months ago

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I believe both of those pairs [(12, 0) and (0,12)] are counted in the above solution.

Vivek Bhupatiraju - 5 years, 10 months ago

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@Vivek Bhupatiraju They are counted as different pairs. But still the answer is 13.

Andy Zhang - 5 years, 8 months ago
Eric Nie
May 20, 2014

Note that 432 = 12 3 \sqrt{432} = 12\sqrt{3}

For the square root of two integers, to add up to 12 3 12\sqrt{3} , the square root of the integers must be in the form x 3 x\sqrt{3} and y 3 y\sqrt{3} .

Let a = x 3 \sqrt{a}=x\sqrt{3} and b = y 3 \sqrt{b} = y\sqrt{3} , then the original equation becomes x 3 + y 3 = 12 3 x + y = 12 x\sqrt{3}+y\sqrt{3} = 12\sqrt{3}\Longrightarrow x+y =12 . Since x and y must be nonnegative, there are 13 \boxed{13} solutions. ( x , y ) = ( 0 , 12 ) , ( 1 , 11 ) ( 2 , 10 ) . . . . ( 11 , 1 ) , ( 12 , 0 ) (x,y) = (0,12),(1,11)(2,10)....(11,1),(12,0) For every solution pair ( x , y ) (x,y) , the pair of integers ( 3 x 2 , 3 y 2 ) (3x^2, 3y^2) satisfies the original equation.

Best solution very intuitive well done

Ashish Sacheti - 5 years, 10 months ago

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I also did in exactly similar way.

Kushagra Sahni - 5 years, 9 months ago

nice job dude

PSN murthy - 5 years, 6 months ago

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Wouldn't x 3 = 0 x\sqrt{3} = 0 make a = 0 a = 0 ? Since a = x 3 \sqrt{a} = x\sqrt{3} ? So why are the (0,12) and the (12,0) pairs included?

Kexin Zheng - 5 years, 1 month ago

Aren't the pairs ordered- so therefore the (12,0) pair would be the (0,12) pair and therefore only the first seven pairs would be counted: (0,12), (1,11), (2,10), (3,9), (4,8), (5,7), (6,6) or am I misinterpreting the question? Also, do a and b have to be different? If so, then (6,6) wouldn't count and the answer would be six

Lottie Turner - 4 years, 9 months ago
Eric Wang
May 20, 2014

Note that the prime factorization of 432 is 2^4*3^3 and that a, b \geq 0

We start by moving \sqrt{b} to the RHS and squaring both sides of the equation. This gives us a=432+b-2*\sqrt{432b}

Since a, b, 432 are all integers, we find that \sqrt{432b} must be a perfect square; hence b must be some multiple of 3. Note that the same process can be applied to a as well, so a, b are both multiples of 3. Call a and b 3x and 3y respectively, so that the new equation becomes \sqrt{3x} + \sqrt{3y} = \sqrt{432}. Dividing by \sqrt{3}, we find that \sqrt{x} + \sqrt{y} = 12. Since every ordered pair (x, y) maps to a unique (a, b), it suffices to find the solutions to our new equation.

Since sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} sum to an integer, it's clear that x and y must individually be perfect squares as well. And, because a, b \geq 0, so must x and y. The possible ordered pairs, then are (0, 12), (1, 12), \ldots , (12, 0). Thirteen solutions.

Calvin Lin Staff
May 13, 2014

Claim: If N \sqrt{N} is rational then N N must be a perfect square.

Proof: Let a b = N \frac{a}{b} = \sqrt{N} for co-prime integers a a and b b . So we have b 2 N = a 2 b^2N = a^2 . Suppose a prime p p divides b b then it must divide b 2 N b^2N thus it must divide a a . Since a a and b b are co-prime, there is no prime p p that divides both a a and b b . Hence no prime p p divides b b which implies that b = 1 b=1 is the only possibility. Therefore N = a 2 N = a^2 must be a perfect square.

Squaring both sides gives a + b + 2 a b = 432 a + b + 2 \sqrt{ab} = 432 . Since a b = 432 a b 2 \sqrt{ab} = \frac {432-a-b}{2} is rational, therefore a b ab must be a perfect square by the above claim. Let a = A 2 x a = A^2 x and b = B 2 y b = B^2 y , where x x and y y are the product of distinct prime factors (not divisible by the square of any prime). Since a b ab is a perfect square, then a b = A 2 B 2 x y ab = A^2B^2xy must be a perfect square. As such, any prime p p that divides x must divide y y and vice versa. This shows that x = y x = y . Hence, ( A + B ) x = 432 = 12 3 (A+B) \sqrt{ x } = \sqrt{432} = 12\sqrt{3} , which shows that x = 3 x = 3 (since x x is not divisible by a square) and A + B = 12 A+B =12 . Thus, A + B = 12 A+B = 12 has unique integer solutions, for all integers from A = 0 A=0 to A = 12 A=12 , giving 12 0 + 1 = 13 12-0+1 = 13 total solutions.

Let's assume we know a value of a a that is part of a solution. Then, we can conclude that b = 432 + a 1728 a b = 432 + a - \sqrt{1728a} . The solution will be valid for all integers a a such that 0 a 432 0 \le a \le 432 and 1728 a = k 2 1728a = k^2 for some k N k \in N .

The prime factorisation of the coefficient is 1728 = 2 6 3 3 1728 = 2^6 * 3^3 . Therefore, the integers we take for a a must be of the form a = 3 x a = 3 * x , where x x is a complete square.

Since 0 a 432 0 \leq a \leq 432 , it is implied that 0 x 432 / 3 = 144 0 \leq x \leq 432 / 3 = 144 . As 144 = 1 2 2 144 = 12^2 , we can conclude that there are exactly 13 \boxed{13} possible values for a a , and hence for ( a , b ) (a,b) as well.

Firstly, if we square the equation we will get a + b + 2 a b = 432 a+b+2\sqrt{ab} = 432

Let d = g c d ( a , b ) , a = d p , b = d q d = gcd(a,b), a = dp, b = dq where g c d ( p , q ) = 1 gcd(p,q) = 1 . Substituting this to above implies d ( p + q + 2 p q ) = 432 d(p+q+2\sqrt{pq}) = 432 so p q pq must be a perfect square and since they are relatively prime, each of them is a perfect square, i.e. p = k 2 , q = l 2 p = k^2,q=l^2

Firstly separate the case for k = 0 k=0 and l = 0 l=0 , we have 2 solutions. Now we can consider k , l k,l as positive integers

We have d ( k + l ) 2 = 432 = 2 4 3 3 d(k+l)^2 =432 = 2^4*3^3 , so we consider all possible choices of ( k + l ) 2 (k+l)^2 which is 1 , 3 2 , 2 2 , 2 2 3 2 , 2 4 , 2 4 3 2 1,3^2,2^2,2^2*3^2,2^4,2^4*3^2 (value of d d will automatically follow), and for each of them count all the possible k , l ) k,l) relatively prime to each other.

For example if k + l = 2 2 3 2 k+l = 2^2*3^2 then k + l = 2 3 = 6 k+l = 2*3 = 6 , so we have ( k , l ) = { ( 1 , 5 ) , ( 5 , 1 ) } (k,l) = \{(1,5),(5,1)\} and so there are 2 solutions to this case.

In total we have 13 solutions.

Revanth Gumpu
Jul 27, 2015

Simplify sqrt(432). This is 12sqrt(3). Since a and b are non negative integers, we know that sqrt(3) has to be part of the terms sqrt(a) and sqrt(b). Thus, we have sqrt(3a) + sqrt(3b) = 12sqrt(3). Dividing sqrt(3) we get a +b = 12. Therefore, we just have to find all the integer pairs which make this statement true and that is 13.

Moderator note:

The crucial part of this proof is in explaining "Since a and b are non negative integers, we know that sqrt(3) has to be part of the terms sqrt(a) and sqrt(b)."

Why must this be true?

Jason Xie
May 20, 2014

I started by simplifying sqrt(432) to 12sqrt(3). then because a and b are both integers, the only way for sqrt(a) and sqrt(b) to add up to 12 sqrt(3), they must both have a constant times sqrt(3). This gives us 13 possible solutions because sqrt(a) can equal to any number from 0 to 12 times sqrt(3) and sqrt(b) would just have to match sqrt(a) so that they added up to twelve.

David Altizio
May 20, 2014

Note that 432 = 12 3 \sqrt{432}=12\sqrt{3} . Hence we must find integers a a and b b such that a + b = 12 3 \sqrt{a}+\sqrt{b}=12\sqrt{3} . Next, we realize that a + b \sqrt{a}+\sqrt{b} can only be combined into a single radical (in this case 432 \sqrt{432} ) if a a and b b can be represented in the forms 3 m 2 3m^2 and 3 n 2 3n^2 respectively, where m m and n n are not necessarily distinct positive integers. This is due to the fact that square roots are irrational, and as a result only a few pairs of radicals can be combined to form a single radical. As a result, we will have a + b = 3 m 2 + 3 n 2 = 3 ( m + n ) \sqrt{a}+\sqrt{b}=\sqrt{3m^2}+\sqrt{3n^2}=\sqrt{3}(m+n) , which clearly has the same form as the RHS of the equation. In fact, since this expression is equal to 12 3 12\sqrt{3} , we have m + n = 12 m+n=12 . Finally, we note that m m and n n have to both be positive integers. To prove this, suppose WLOG that m m is negative. Then as a result we must have n > 12 n>12 , so 3 m 2 + 3 n 2 > 3 m 2 + 432 > 432 \sqrt{3m^2}+\sqrt{3n^2}>\sqrt{3m^2}+\sqrt{432}>\sqrt{432} , contradiction. Therefore, since m m and n n have to be positive, the equation has 13 13 solutions in integers: ( m , n ) = ( 0 , 12 ) , ( 1 , 11 ) , ( 2 , 10 ) , , ( 12 , 0 ) (m,n)=(0,12),(1,11),(2,10),\cdots,(12,0) .

Jonathan Gitsis
May 7, 2016

a + b = 432 \sqrt{a} + \sqrt{b} = \sqrt{432} and 432 = 12 3 \sqrt{432} = 12\sqrt{3}

We can say a = 3 A 2 A^2 and b = 3 B 2 B^2 a and b are integers, the sum of their roots is irrational so: A 3 \sqrt{3} + B 3 \sqrt{3} = 12 3 \sqrt{3}

A + B = 12 The non negative solutions are: 6,6; 5,7; 7,5; 4,8; 8,4; 3,9; 9,3; 2,10; 10,2; 1,11; 11,1; 0,12; 12,0.

We have 13 Solutions.

Sarith Imaduwage
Jan 23, 2016

Find the largest non-negative 'a' and 'b' For above question!!

Raviteja Meesala
May 20, 2014

sqrt(432) = 12sqrt(3) sqrt(a)+sqrt(b) = sqrt(c) implies a,b must have common irrational term implies 12sqrt(3) = 0+12 = 1+11 = .... 12+0

Ying Cheng Gan
May 20, 2014

√a+√b=√432 √a+√b=12√3 from 0+12√3=12√3 √3+11√3=12√3 2√3+10√3=12√3 . . . 12√3+√3=12√3 so all together there is 13 pairs of integers (a,b)

(a^0.5)+(b^0.5)=(432)^0.5 (432)^0.5=12 (3)^0.5 therefore the no.of ordered pairs should sum up to 12 (3)^0.5 by this,from (0,12 (3)^0.5).................................to (12 (3)^0.5,0),there are 13 ordered pairs.

Thirdie Perez
May 20, 2014

Note that 432 = 12 3 . \sqrt{432} = 12 \sqrt{3}.

So we have a + b = 12 3 . \sqrt{a} + \sqrt{b} = 12 \sqrt{3}.

For the above expression to happen, a = n 3 \sqrt{a} = n \sqrt{3} and b = m 3 , \sqrt{b} = m \sqrt{3}, for some n , m Z + { 0 } . n,m \in \mathbb{Z}^{+} \cup \{0\}. (Also, n , m n,m can never be both zero otherwise the equality won't hold.)

Hence, there are only 13 possible ordered pairs ( n , m ) (n,m) such that n 3 + m 3 = 12 3 . n \sqrt{3} + m \sqrt{3} = 12 \sqrt{3}.

Since a = n 3 \sqrt{a} = n \sqrt{3} and b = m 3 , \sqrt{b} = m \sqrt{3}, it follows that there are 13 possible ordered pairs ( a , b ) (a,b) such that a + b = 12 3 = 432 . \sqrt{a} + \sqrt{b} = 12 \sqrt{3} = \sqrt{432}.

Jeffery Yu
May 20, 2014

First, we simplify 432 \sqrt{432} to 144 3 = 12 3 \sqrt{144 \cdot 3} = 12\sqrt{3} . The fact that a a and b b are integers limits our possibilities greatly. What we essentially need to do is choose a a and b b so that they simplify to m 3 m\sqrt{3} and n 3 n\sqrt{3} where m + n = 12 m + n = 12 . We start with ( m , n ) = ( 0 , 12 ) (m, n) = (0, 12) , and then continue by increasing m m by 1 1 and decreasing n n by 1 1 each time up to ( m , n ) = ( 12 , 0 ) (m, n) = (12, 0) . That gives us a total of 12 0 + 1 = 13 12 - 0 + 1 = \boxed{13} possible ordered pairs of ( a , b ) (a, b) .

Vaibhav Jariwala
May 20, 2014

The \sqrt{432} can be simplified to 12\sqrt{3}, and as such, you know you will be working with multiples of \sqrt{3}. You can replace \sqrt{ a } with x \sqrt{3} and \sqrt{ b } with y \sqrt{3}. Dividing both sides by \sqrt{3} yields the equation x + y =12. Since you are not solving for the actual values of a and b , you can simply find the number of ordered pairs of positive (as the original requires square roots without complex numbers) integers that proves the equation x + y =12. This should result in 13 ordered pairs.

Chitres Guria
May 20, 2014

Firstly, √ 432 is simplified till it is irreducible.

So, √ 432 = 12√ 3

It given that √ a & √ b are integers, then inevitably (a) & (b) are non-negative integers.(i.e. from within a square root negative outcomes are not possible unless the case of imaginary number comes) (reason 1).

Now, 12√ 3 can be expressed as: x√3 + y√3 =√3(x + y)

Matching, 12√ 3 with (1), we can say that (x + y) is equal to 12, specifying that (x) and (y) are non-negative integers. (again using reason 1).

Now, we need to find the number of such pairs which sum up to 12.

Conditions applied while choosing:

(x) and (y) are non-negative integers

From the above , both of them can have maximum value of 12, exceeding 12 violates the above .

Repetition of pairs are not allowed .

Using formula, C(N+R-1, R-1) (where N is number of objects or specimens , R is the number of specimens taken at a time, and it is valid for specimens <= 0)

Here, N = 13, R = 2.

Solving , we get: [(N+R-1)!]÷[(R-1)!(N+R-1-R+1)! ]

                                 = 13

Now, 13 pairs are obtained which are: (0,12);(1,11);(2,10);(3,9);(4,8);(5,7);(6,6);(7,5);(8,4);(9,3);(10,2);(11,1);(12,0)

Putting x√3=a & y√3=b, desired values are obtained if required.

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