Three points are chosen uniformly at random from the boundary of a square and a fourth point is chosen uniformly at random from the interior. The probability that the 4th point lies in the triangle formed by the other 3 points can be expressed as b a where a and b are coprime positive integers. What is the value of a + b ?
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Remarkably good.
How can probability for case 2 ..has units i.e. dxdydz(x-y)z/2..../area of square=1...so how you got dxdydz....
Casework on which sides the points are on. If they are all on the same side (4 cases), the area is trivially 0. If two are on the same side and the other is adjacent to that side (24 cases), the average area is 1/12.
We will quickly show that given two random variables x , y ∈ [ 0 , 1 ] , the expected value of ∣ x − y ∣ is 1/3. Visualize the search space as a unit square. Then |x-y| can be modeled as two tetrahedra with total area 1/3.
Therefore, the average distance (and hence base) is 1/3. The average height is 1/2 (the third point). So 1 / 3 ⋅ 1 / 2 ⋅ 1 / 2 = 1 / 1 2 .
If two are on the same side and the other is opposite to that side (12 cases) the average area is 1/6; the height is guaranteed to be 1 this time.
Otherwise, they are all on different sides (24 cases). By keeping two of the points fixed, it can easily be shown that the average area of the triangle occurs when the third is at the center of the segment. Apply this three times to get an area of 1/4.
So ( 1 / 4 ⋅ 2 4 + 1 / 6 ⋅ 1 2 + 1 / 1 2 ⋅ 2 4 + 0 ⋅ 4 ) / 6 4 = 5 / 3 2 and the answer is 37.
Let A be the event that all three points are chosen on the same edge of the square. Let B be the event that two points are chosen on the same edge of the square, with the third point on the opposite edge. Let C be the event that two points are chosen on the same edge of the square, with the third point chosen on an adjacent edge. Let D be the event that the three points are all on different edges of the triangle. Since each point is equally likely to be chosen on any one of the four edges, we deduce that P [ A ] = 1 6 1 , P [ B ] = 1 6 3 , P [ C ] = 1 6 6 and P [ D ] = 1 6 6 .
Let I be the event that the fourth point is inside the triangle formed by the other three points. If we assume that each side of the square has length 1 then, for any particular choice of the first three points, the probability of I is the area of the triangle formed by the other three points.
In the case of event A , the area formed by the three points is 0 . Thus P [ I ∣ A ] = 0 .
In the case of event B , let the distances of the two points on the same side from one end of that side be X and Y . Then X and Y are both uniformly distributed on [ 0 , 1 ] , and the area of the triangle is 2 1 ∣ X − Y ∣ . Thus P [ I ∣ B ] = ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 ∣ x − y ∣ d x d x = 6 1
In the case of event C , let the distances of the two points on the same side from one end of that side be X and Y , and let Z be the height of the third point above that side. Then X , Y and Z are each uniformly distributed on [ 0 , 1 ] , and the area of the triangle is 2 1 ∣ X − Y ∣ Z . Thus P [ I ∣ C ] = ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 ∣ x − y ∣ z d x d y d z = 1 2 1
In the case of event D , let the square be P Q R S , and suppose that the three vertices V 1 , V 2 , V 3 lie on P Q , Q R and R S respectively. This is always possible if we label the vertices correctly. Let X , Y and Z be the distances P V 1 , Q V 2 and R V 3 respectively. Then X , Y , Z are uniformly distributed on [ 0 , 1 ] and the area of the triangle is 1 − 2 1 ( 1 − X ) Y − 2 1 ( 1 − Y ) Z − 2 1 ( X + 1 − Z ) Thus P [ I ∣ D ] = ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 [ 1 − x − y + x y + y z ] d x d y d z = 4 1
Thus we deduce that P [ I ] = 1 6 1 × 0 + 1 6 3 × 6 1 + 1 6 6 × 1 2 1 + 1 6 6 × 4 1 = 3 2 5 and hence the answer is 5 + 3 2 = 3 7 .
I worked out the areas of the triangles without using calculus: For the case with two points on the same side of the unit square, then let M be the mean distance between the two points.
To work out what M is: divide the edge in half. If one point is in each half then the mean distance is clearly 2 1 . But if both points are in the same half then their mean distance is 2 M . So M = 2 1 2 M + 2 1 2 1 , i.e. M = 3 1 .
So the area of the triangle with base on this edge and apex on the opposite edge , using the formula 2 1 b h , is 2 1 ⋅ 3 1 ⋅ 1 = 6 1 . And for the case where the apex is on a side of the square adjacent to the side containing the base, the mean height is 2 1 and the area is proportional to the height, so the mean area can be found by just considering the mean height, so 2 1 ⋅ 3 1 ⋅ 2 1 = 1 2 1 .
For the case with three points on different edges you can just consider the areas of the three triangles plus one rectangle outside of that triangle, and subtract that from 1 . This gives a formula that varies linearly with the position of one point, so again you can just use the mean value for that point.
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nice method!!
I would be interested to see your formula for the last case. Jatin, Logan and I have all done just the calculation you outline, and all ended up with equivalent formulae saying that the required probability is of the form 2 1 E [ X Y + ( 1 − Y ) Z ] where X , Y , Z are the distances of the three points from one end of their respective sides. You can use the independence of these random variables to deduce the answer without integration, if you like, but I would be surprised if this formula reduces to one involving just one side length, unless you are implicitly using independence and applying some symmetry arguments, like 2 1 E [ X Y + ( 1 − Y ) Z ] = E [ X Y ] = E [ X ] 2 = 4 1
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If the vertices are (0,a), (b,0) and (1,c) with a > c then the area is 1 − [ 2 1 ( a b + c ( 1 − b ) + ( a − c ) ) + ( 1 − a ) ] , which is 2 1 ( a + b ( c − a ) ) . Now, I guess this is a symmetry argument as you say, but if we pair up any a > c case with its reflection which has c > a , then the mean of those two areas is 4 1 ( a + b ( c − a ) + a + b ( a − c ) ) , i.e. 2 a .
I'm not 100% sure this is rigorous but it felt like the right answer!
We use the independence of variable which gives us E [ X Y ] = E [ X ] E [ Y ] . As stated below, it is easier to find the expected area of the square - triangle. There is no need for a symmetry argument (and I don't really see one).
Orient the square so that the side with no point on it it as the top. Label the distance from the bottom side to the point on the left side as a , the distance from the bottom side to the point on the right side as b , and the distance from the left side to the point on the bottom side as c . Then the area of the triangle is 2 a + b − 2 a c − 2 b ( 1 − c ) . Since a , b , c are independent, E ( 2 a + b − a c − b ( 1 − c ) ) = 2 E ( a ) + E ( b ) − E ( a ) E ( c ) − E ( b ) E ( 1 − c ) = 4 1 .
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@Calvin Lin – But this is exactly my point. All you have done is what I did in my comment, which is identical with what the three original solutions did (although they were cast in calculus-speak). I was hoping that Matt had a new method to show. I liked his argument for the 3 1 probability, and was hoping he had something similar to tell.
You can use symmetry, as I did when I said that E [ X Y ] = E [ ( 1 − Y ) Z ] . This is just saying that the expectation of the product of the distances along two different sides are the same - it does not matter which end of the side you measure the distance from!
Consider a unit square with length 1. Define
x 1 , x 2 , x 3 : x : = ( x 1 , x 2 , x 3 ) : p : E : points on the boundary of the square, generate a triangle with area A random variables that control the position of x i on the border with distribution P x ( x ) fourth point in the interior of the square event that p lies within the triangle
If the triangle has already been chosen, we can compare the area of the trangle and the unit square: P ( E ∣ x ) = 1 A ( x ) = A ( x )
With Bayes' Theorem, we can calculate P ( E ) . The set Ω contains all values for the random variables x i : P ( E ) = ∫ Ω P ( E ∣ x ) P x ( x ) d V = ∫ Ω A ( x ) P x ( x ) d V = E ( A ( x ) )
Let's analyse what happens when we place x i randomly on the square's boundary. We can break up the process into two steps:
Think about the first step: There are a total of 4 3 choices of equal probability 4 3 1 ! Luckily, we can order the choices that generate a triangle with area A > 0 into just three distinct classes:
In the second step after choosing a side, we assign to each point x i a uniformly distributed random variable x i ∈ [ 0 ; 1 ] that controls its position on its side (check the graphics). Now we are ready to tackle the three classes.
E 1 : x i lie on different sides (left graphic)
There are 4 choices for the empty border and afterwards 3 ! = 6 choices for the order of the three points. By rotation, all 24 choices are the same! With the coordinate system in the graphic, we get A ( x ) P ( E 1 ) = 2 1 ∣ ∣ ∣ ∣ ∣ ∣ ⎝ ⎛ x 3 − x 1 1 0 ⎠ ⎞ × ⎝ ⎛ − x 1 x 2 0 ⎠ ⎞ ∣ ∣ ∣ ∣ ∣ ∣ = 2 1 ( x 1 ( 1 − x 2 ) + x 2 x 3 ) = 4 3 2 4 E [ A ( x ) ] = 8 3 ⋅ 2 1 E [ x 1 ( 1 − x 2 ) + x 2 x 3 ] = 1 6 3 ( E [ x 1 ] ( 1 − E [ x 2 ] ) + E [ x 2 ] E [ x 3 ] ] ) ( ∗ ) = 1 6 3 ( 2 1 ⋅ 2 1 + 2 1 ⋅ 2 1 ) = 3 2 3
E 2 : two points share a side and the third lies on an adjacent side (center graphic)
There are 4 choices for the border with two points, 2 choices for the border of the third point and afterwards 3 possibilities to pick one x i as the third point. By rotation and mirroring, all 24 choices are are the same! The graphic in the middle yields A ( x ) P ( E 2 ) = 2 1 ∣ x 3 − x 1 ∣ y 2 = 4 3 2 4 E [ A ( x ) ] = 8 3 ⋅ 2 1 E [ ∣ x 3 − x 1 ∣ ] E [ x 2 ] ( ∗ ) = 1 6 3 ⋅ 3 1 ⋅ 2 1 = 3 2 1
E 3 : two points share a side and the third lies on the opposite side (right graphic)
There are 4 choices for the border with two points and afterwards 3 possibilities to pick one x i as the third point on the opposite side. After rotation, all 12 choices are are the same! Using the right graphic: A ( x ) P ( E 3 ) = 2 1 ∣ x 3 − x 1 ∣ ⋅ 1 = 2 1 ∣ x 3 − x 1 ∣ = 4 3 1 2 E [ A ( x ) ] = 1 6 3 ⋅ 2 1 E [ ∣ x 3 − x 1 ∣ ] ( ∗ ) = 3 2 3 ⋅ 3 1 = 3 2 1
Combine the three distinct classes: P ( E ) = P ( E 1 ) + P ( E 2 ) + P ( E 3 ) = 3 2 5 ⇒ a + b = 5 + 3 2 = 3 7
Rem: In ( ∗ ) , we used the fact that for independent and uniformly distributed variables x i , x j ∈ [ 0 ; 1 ] : E [ x i ] = ∫ 0 1 x i ⋅ 1 d x i = 2 1 , E [ ∣ x i − x j ∣ ] = ∫ ( x i , x j ) ∈ [ 0 ; 1 ] 2 ∣ x i − x j ∣ ⋅ 1 d ( x i ; x j ) = 3 1
Very cleanly written! Thanks!
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You're very welcome, thank you for coming up with such a great problem, I had a blast with it! It's always a pleasure to exploit symmetry, and this problem has plenty of that. I'm glad the solution is understandable (and hopefully correct as well).
First, we place the first three points on the sides of the squares. There are 4 cases:
Case 1) All points on the same side: After placing the first point, there is a 4 1 × 4 1 = 1 6 1 chance that the next two points will be placed on the same side.
Case 2) Two points on the same side and one on an adjacent side: After placing the first point, there is a 4 1 × 2 1 = 8 1 chance that the second point is placed on the same side and the last point is placed on an adjacent side, however, the lone point could have been placed either first, second, or third, so this case has a total probability of 3 × 8 1 = 8 3 .
Case 3) Two points on the same side and one point on the opposite side: After placing the first point, there is a 4 1 × 4 1 = 1 6 1 chance that the second point is placed on the same side and the last point is placed on the opposite side, however, the lone point could have been placed either first, second, or third, so this case has a total probability of 3 × 1 6 1 = 1 6 3 .
Case 4) All points being placed on different sides: After placing the first point, the second point can be placed on any of the remaining 3 sides, and the last point can be placed on any of the remaining 2 sides, so this case has a total probability of 4 3 × 4 2 = 8 3 .
We now consider the fourth point. The probability that this point lands in the triangle determined by the first three points is the area of success divided by total area, or the area of the triangle divided by the area of the square. We can assume that the square is the unit square to simplify calculations. We now consider each case separately.
Case 1) All points on the same side: Clearly if all points are on the same side the resulting triangle has no area, so the probability of success by case 1 is 1 6 1 × 0 = 0 .
Case 2) Two points on the same side and one on an adjacent side: The base of the triangle is determined by the distance between the two points on the same side. The height is determined by the perpendicular distance of the third point from the side on which the other two points lie. Assume WLOG that the first point is closer to the corner formed by the two edges on which the points lie than the second. If x is the distance between this corner and the first point, y is the distance between the second point and the first point, and z is the perpendicular distance between the third point and the edge on which the other two points lie, we evaluate the integral ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ x 1 2 1 y z d y d x d z = 1 2 1
Case 3) Two points on the same side and one point on the opposite side: We write the expression for the base similarly, however, in this case the height is fixed at 1. Thus, the integral is ∫ 0 1 ∫ x 1 2 1 y d y d x = 6 1
Case 4) All points being placed on different sides: Orient the square such that one point lies on the positive x axis, one on the positive y axis, and the last on the side opposite the y axis. Let x be the distance between the origin and the first point, let y be the distance between the origin and the second point, and let z be the distance between the final point and the x axis (Drawing the square is especially useful in this case). The area of the triangle of interest is 1 − 2 1 x y − 2 1 ( 1 − x ) z − 2 1 ( y − z ) − ( 1 − y ) which simplifies to 2 1 ( x z − x y + y ) The integral becomes, ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 ( x z − x y + y ) d x d y d z = 4 1
Thus, the probability that the fourth point lies within the interior of the triangle determined by the other 3 is 0 + 8 3 × 1 2 1 + 1 6 3 × 6 1 + 8 3 × 4 1 = 3 2 5
So the answer is 5 + 3 2 = 3 7
Note: I believe that you can argue that when one point is placed on an edge its expected value is on the midpoint of the edge, and when two points are placed on an edge the expected value of the distance between them is 3 1 . Using these facts you could construct representative triangles to make the solution much much simpler.
I didn't include this in my official solution, however, because I didn't know how to justify it and i wasn't entirely certain that it's true.
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Instead of 'expected value is on the midpoint of the edge', the correct interpretation to use is that the expected distance from the vertex is 2 1 . You can then proceed by finding the areas of the various triangles, according to the different cases, using the linearity of expected value of independent events.
This would allow you to approach the problem without using calculus.
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Ohh thank you so much for that. What would I necessarily have to show in order to use expected value in probability questions such as this? Just linearity and independence?
I also have a follow-up problem. Question A6 on the 1992 Putnam asks: If 4 points are randomly chosen from the surface of a sphere, what is the probability that the center of the sphere is contained within the tetrahedron whose vertices are on those 4 points? Could I make the following argument:
Let C be the center of the sphere Choose P 1 on the sphere. The expected value of the smaller angle between C P 1 and C P 2 is 2 π . The expected value of the smaller angle between the planes C P 1 P 2 and C P 1 P 3 is 2 π and the expected value of the smaller angle between C P 1 and C P 3 is 2 π . Let P 1 ′ , P 2 ′ , P 3 ′ be the points on the surface of the sphere opposite P 1 , P 2 , P 3 , respectively. Tetrahedron P 1 P 2 P 3 P 4 will contain C if and only if P 4 lies in the region of the surface determined by triangle P 1 ′ P 2 ′ P 3 ′ , which is 8 1 the total surface of the sphere. Hence, the desired probability is 8 1 .
Again, thanks.
I don't get why the expected value of a segment made by 2 points independently chosen on a segment of length 1 is 1/3.
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I thought it is 3/8.
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A l g e b r a i c s o l u t i o n . There are two equally likely cases:
Case 1. The points lie on opposite sides of the center. For this case, the average distance between them is 4 1 + 4 1 = 2 1
Case 2. Both points lie on the same side of the center. For this case, the average distance between them is one-half of the answer we are looking for.
Hence, the average distance is
a = 2 1 ( 2 1 + 2 a )
so 4 a = 1 + a or a = 3 1 .
G e o m e t r i c ( s y m m e t r y ) s o l u t i o n . An equivalent problem is: Take a circle with circumference one, and designate one point on it as P . If two points A , B on the circumference are chosen at random, what is the expected length of the arc that goes through A and B but not P ?
Using this form of the problem, observe that the original choice of P does not affect the answer. So thinking of it as cutting the circle at three randomly chosen points , A , B and P , (hence cutting it into three pieces), it becomes clear by symmetry that the answer must be 3 1 .
(Note: Someone on the webpage that Joel D. linked
http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/195245/average-distance-between-random-points-on-a-line
also used symmetry, but explained it differently.)
http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/195245/average-distance-between-random-points-on-a-line
WLoG: The square has sides of length 1.
The probability that the interior point is in the triangle formed by the other 3 points is now equal to the area of the triangle.
There are 4 different ways for 3 points to be chosen on the 4 sides of the square (with a total of 64 possibilities). The probability that one or more of the points are on a corner of the square is negligible and those cases can be safely ignored:
1) All 3 on the same side (4 possibilities)
The area of the triangle in this case is always 0.
2) 2 on the same side and the other point on an adjacent side (24 possibilities);
Let points X and Y be on the same side and point Z be on an adjacent side, with X at distance x , Y at distance y , and Z at distance z from the corner shared by both sides. The area of the triangle in this case is 2 1 z ∣ x − y ∣ . Because of the uniformly chosen points all triangles of this form have the same probability, so the average area of these triangles is ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 z ∣ x − y ∣ d z d y d x = 1 2 1 .
3) 2 on the same side and the other point on the opposite side (12 possibilities);
Let points X and Y be on the same side and point Z be on the opposite side, with X at distance x , Y at distance y , and Z at distance z from the same unoccupied side of the square. The area of the triangle in this case is 2 1 ∣ x − y ∣ , and the average area of all these triangles is ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 ∣ x − y ∣ d z d y d x = 6 1 .
4) All 3 on different sides (24 possibilities).
Let point X and Y be on opposite sides of the square and point Z be on one of the other two sides, with X at distance x , and Y at distance y from the side on which Z is on, and Z at distance z from the side on which X is on. The area of the triangle in this case is the area of the right-angled trapezium formed by the Z-side, the Z-side parts of the X and Y sides and XY ( 2 1 ( x + y ) ) minus the area of the two right-angled triangles between X and Z ( 2 1 x z ) and Y and Z ( 2 1 y ( 1 − z ) ). The area is 2 1 x − 2 1 x z + 2 1 y z , and the average area of all these triagles is ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 x − 2 1 x z + 2 1 y z d z d y d x = 4 1 .
The probability that the interior point is in the triangle formed by the other 3 points is now: 6 4 4 × 0 + 2 4 × 1 2 1 + 1 2 × 6 1 + 2 4 × 4 1 = 3 2 5 .
The answer is therefore 5 + 3 2 = 3 7 .
Nice solution! This was a very tough problem. It was nice to see we solved it in similar fashions.
In last case we have to take mod
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Let us name the square as ABCD , of length 1 , and the points to be chosen be P 1 , P 2 , P 3 and P 4 .
Note : For GIVEN P 1 , P 2 , and P 3 ,Probability = A r ( A B C D ) △ P 1 P 2 P 3 )
Here 4 cases are possible :
Case - 1 : P 1 , P 2 and P 3 lie on the same edge. The probability that this happens = 4 3 4 = 1 6 1 . Now , after this the probability that P 4 lies in triangle formed by P 1 , P 2 and P 3 = 0.
Case - 2 : 2 of P 1 , P 1 , P 1 (say P 1 and P 2 lie on the same edge(say AB) and P 4 lies on an edge(say BC) adjacent to that edge.
The probability that this happens = 4 3 ( 2 3 ) × 4 × 2 = 8 3 . Now Let us say P 1 , P 2 and P 3 are at a distance x , y and z from B .
The probability that now P 4 happens to be inside the triangle formed by them = ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 ∣ x − y ∣ z d x d y d z = 1 2 1
Case-3 : Two points(Say P 1 and P 2 ) lie on the same edge A B , and the third one lies on the opposite vertex.
The probability that this happens = r 3 ( 2 3 ) × 4 × 1 = 1 6 3
Say, distance of P 1 and P 2 from A is x and y respectively,
The probability that P 4 lies in triangle formed by P 1 , P 2 , and P 3 = ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 ∣ x − y ∣ d x d y = 6 1 (Note that i have divided by 1 as the area of sample space = 1 )
Case - 4 : All of P 1 , P 2 and P 3 lie on different edges.
The probability that this happens = 4 3 4 × 3 × 2 = 8 3
Now, say P 1 is on A B , P 2 is on B C , P 3 is on A D .
Say B P 1 = x , B P 2 = y , A P 3 = z .
Area of triangle formed = 2 1 ( x + z − ( 1 − y ) z − x y )
Hence , P( P 4 lies inside the triangle) = ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 ∫ 0 1 2 1 ( x + z − ( 1 − y ) z − x y ) d x d y d z = 4 1
Summing according to Baye's theorem ,
Required probability = 8 3 × 1 2 1 + 1 6 3 × 6 1 + 8 3 × 4 1 = 3 2 5 ⇒ a + b = 3 7