Strange Perpendicular Chords

Geometry Level 3

Two mutually perpendicular chords are drawn from the vertex of parabola such that their lengths are 8 8 and 27 27 . This is possible for only one distance between the parabola's focus and the directrix.

The length of latus rectum of such a parabola can be expressed as a b \displaystyle \frac{a}{\sqrt{b}} where a a and b b are positive coprime integers and b b is square-free .

Enter the value of a + b a+b .

Details and Assumptions:

  • Latus rectum is the focal chord of a parabola which is perpendicular to the axis of the parabola.


The answer is 49.

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3 solutions

Sudeep Salgia
Dec 22, 2014

Since it is independent of orientation we can WLOG assume the parabola to be y 2 = 4 a x y^2 = 4ax . Its vertex is the origin.

(Refer to the image above.)

Consider two mutually perpendicular chords of lengths r 1 r_1 and r 2 r_2 respectively. Hence points on the parabola can be written as ( r 1 cos θ , r 1 sin θ ) (r_1 \cos \theta , r_1 \sin \theta ) and ( r 2 sin θ , r 2 cos θ ) (r_2 \sin \theta , r_2 \cos \theta ) . Naturally they must satisfy the equation of the parabola, thereby yielding us the following equations:

r 1 = 4 a cos θ sin 2 θ \displaystyle r_1 = \frac{4a \cos \theta }{ \sin ^2 \theta }

r 2 = 4 a sin θ cos 2 θ \displaystyle r_2 = \frac{4a \sin \theta }{ \cos ^2 \theta }

Now we need to simply eliminate θ \theta . Consider,

r 1 2 3 + r 2 2 3 = ( 4 a ) 2 3 ( cos 2 θ + sin 2 θ sin 2 θ cos 2 θ ) 2 3 \displaystyle r_1^{\frac{2}{3}} +r_2^{\frac{2}{3}} = (4a)^{\frac{2}{3}} \bigg( \frac{ \cos ^2 \theta + \sin ^2 \theta }{\sin ^2 \theta \cos ^2 \theta } \bigg)^{\frac{2}{3}}

r 1 2 3 + r 2 2 3 = 1 16 a 2 ( 16 a 2 sin θ cos θ ) 4 3 \displaystyle \Rightarrow r_1^{\frac{2}{3}} +r_2^{\frac{2}{3}} = \frac{1}{16a^2} \bigg( \frac{16a^2}{\sin \theta \cos \theta } \bigg)^{\frac{4}{3}} .

( r 1 r 2 ) 4 3 = LR 2 ( r 1 2 3 + r 2 2 3 ) \displaystyle \Rightarrow \boxed{ (r_1 r_2)^{\frac{4}{3}} = |\text{LR}|^2 ( r_1^{\frac{2}{3}} + r_2^{\frac{2}{3}} ) }

where, LR = 4 a = |\text{LR}| = 4a = Length of Latus Rectum.

Substitute r 1 = 8 r_1 =8 and r 2 = 27 r_2 = 27 to obtain LR = 36 13 a + b = 49 |\text{LR}| = \frac{36}{\sqrt{13}} \Rightarrow a+b = \boxed{49}

I've added an image to this problem. Can you see if it is accurate? If not, let me know how to update it.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

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It's really nice. Thanks @Calvin Lin .

Sudeep Salgia - 6 years, 5 months ago

oh it was Simply awesome ! Thanks For Sharing this ! So when we generally Use Polar Substitution ? can you please guide me so that I will use it in future ! Thanks Sudeep

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Deepanshu Gupta , there is no rule which helps to decide which approach is easier. You get the idea as you solve more and more questions. But to answer your question, I would say that firstly always remember that polar coordinates are really helpful in certain cases of coordinate geometry. They are the tool when the information more comprehensively available in terms of angles and lengths, the former being the crucial requirement and hint. Polar coordinates make the life easy when one moves along an arc and Cartesian coordinates are helpful to deal with straight lines.

Hope this somewhat makes the idea clearer.-

Sudeep Salgia - 6 years, 5 months ago

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Thanks a ton for your valuable Explanation , I find this technique interesting So as you suggest , i will practice more question's to get command in this awesome Technique ! ¨ \ddot\smile Thanks again !

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Deepanshu Gupta I admire You , Karthik kannan , Jatin yadav, Avienil jain very much ! You guys have very deep Knowledge , of subject's !
And I guess you are in IIT Bombay , May I correct ? And which branch of engineering you have ?

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Deepanshu Gupta Yes I am in IIT Bombay. I am a student of electrical engineering (dual degree). By the way, I remember that you had posted that you would be taking JEE this year. Am I right??

Sudeep Salgia - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Sudeep Salgia @Sudeep Salgia wow That's awesome ! It is Heaven :) , So how did you feel ?

And Yes I Give JEE 2nd time in 2015, Can You Please Guide Me For Chemistry , I'am too weak in it and Scares from it very much , and now it becomes Psychological Fear for me ! But I Think I'am bit Strong in organic , But I'am too weak in Physical Chemistry Specially In Electrochemistry , Ionic equilibrium / Solution's due to careless study in 12th . And For Inorganic is ok ok for me!

Also Please give me any Suggestion That You want to give to me , such That what to do and what not !

I will be very greatfull If you will Help Me ! Thanks a million ton's

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Deepanshu Gupta It is indeed a nice feeling. And I can sense by the questions you have solved and posted that I would definitely meet you there in 2015.

Before I answer your question, I would like to know where did you mess up in this year's paper? I am asking because fortunately for you this time the weightage of physical chemistry was astonishingly low.

Firstly, the only thing left for you is to conquer your fears. If you fear then definitely you would end up messing by committing silly mistakes. Look initially I also used to fear but when I realized that I am able to solve the questions , I changed my way of preparation. I began to develop my exam temperament. What I did was that I took the "AITS" of my coaching classes believing that there was nothing to fear or lose. Initially began with the tests for mains and then gradually got that knack for papers meant for advanced as well. You have to realize that scoring in the JEE is now more a psychological game. And the fact that you already taken the exam once, you now know the feeling. This is nothing to fear. Confidence is what that will boost your score more than anything.

Secondly, as far as you think that chemistry is your weakest subject, it is not so. You have to believe that you are equally good at chemistry. What often happens is that you mess up in half the questions in chemistry because you feel that it is your weakest subject and you would make the highest number of mistakes in this subject itself. Just treat it like mathematics or physics. It is in fact your friend. It saves your time in the exam and gives you that psychological comfort. But remember never try to deliberately extract the comfort. This is because just in case you don't get it, you would land up in a situation which is even worse.

Look Ionic equilibrium is majorly algebraic manipulation. It seems that it is more a test of how well you use the formulas and approximations.Just analyse when and why a formula or approximation is used and solve sums and eventually you would get it. There isn't much that you are lacking or I or anyone can help. Electrochemistry , too, is equation solving in general with some nasty formulas.

I would suggest you to take a few tests of "AITS" ( for which you would have most likely enrolled for) without any performance pressure or fear or anything . Just go there calmly attempt whatever you can and do not fear about the results. Remember it is not that you do not know a certain thing, it is just that you could not manage time for it and you are learning the same.

Wish you all the best for JEE 2015 !! Forget what has happened and Believe in yourself. This is what that would take you to IIT Bombay. Hope to see you there next year.

Sudeep Salgia - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Sudeep Salgia Thanks a million's Times For guiding me ! And Yes Thank you for Your wishes, It is difficult but not impossible So I will try my best !

And Last year I messed up the paper Because I only know How To solve Organic question's and Physical and inorganic are bad for me, Also I was Not able to solve question in Time constrained in Advance Maths So My Rest Paper is also ... , and When I gave The Mains Then I did not Tolerate that Exam Pressure , and I collapse in Mains Exam That's result in My Loss of Confidence , and due to which I didn't get Decent Rank this year .
But This Year I worked on inorganic and organic So they are ok - ok , But As I'am Dropping So No, one taught us in detailed( Conceptually ) in Physical Chemistry as I was Expecting . we enforce to Practice more and more rather than Theoretical aspect's . So This Year also I have not that type of feeling in Physical Chemistry ! But You are Correct That I must have to conquer my fear toward's chemistry , Now I Try To make me Psychologically Strong , as you suggest !

Also Can you please Suggest me That for Physical chemistry what is Best book or material for Specifically IIT JEE Level only which is suitable for my current state ? And officially we Had not completed our course in my coaching Yet , But Still Can you please suggest me which Test Series Should I join ? Also when Should I Specifically concentrate on Mains only ? Thanks a lot ! You inspired me a lot !

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Deepanshu Gupta I am afraid that a lot of coaching centres have already begun taking tests and they generally do not allow to enrol midway through. But still you can try FIITJEE series, if possible , because it is quite popular. But they are a bit unusually difficult and above the level of JEE.
Frankly speaking, I did not refer to any book as such for physical chemistry as I found the material given by my classes to be sufficient. Maybe you can borrow one of your friend's who is currently studying in some other classes. Unfortunately I do not find physical chemistry strongly conceptual it is merely a matter of getting the hang of the kind is questions asked. Maybe if you really want to gain confidence in chemistry, you should try the following exercise. Just try and derive on your own the formulas which are given in your books ( whichever can be derived, generally those in equilibriums and kinetics). It would help you gain some confidence and realise the extent of conceptual knowledge required for the subject. I have another technique to help you out and if you do no find this comfortable or helpful and I will help you. This should work, though.
All the best and just be confident!!!!

Sudeep Salgia - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Sudeep Salgia Thanks ! As You Suggested I will Surely Try it , and I'am just curious to know what is another Technique of which you are talking about ?

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Deepanshu Gupta Just do not worry about it. I am pretty sure that this will surely work. There is no point is being curious. If you really want to know, I would tell it to you after your exams but believe that this will work. Put in all your efforts. It is often better to ignore certain things and concentrate on others. But definitely let me know if you are not comfortable with the technique.
( Don't try it as a way to know the other technique!!)

All the Best!!

Sudeep Salgia - 6 years, 5 months ago

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@Sudeep Salgia Thanks for wishes ! I Have Started This Technique ! It is interesting , Thanks For Helping me !

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago
Deepanshu Gupta
Dec 22, 2014

I solved it in this way : , Let standard equation of Parabola as : y 2 = 4 a x { y }^{ 2 }=4ax Vertex is Origin O(0,0) and Let two chord's OA and OB , Also let Co-ordinates of A & B in paramateric form as : A ( t 1 ) , B ( t 2 ) A({ t }_{ 1 })\quad ,\quad B({ t }_{ 2 }) . and again let length of chord's are l 1 , l 2 { { l }_{ 1 } }\quad ,\quad { l }_{ 2 } .

Using m 1 m 2 = 1 t 1 t 2 = 4 ( 1 ) { m }_{ 1 }{ m }_{ 2 }=-1\quad \quad \Rightarrow \quad \boxed { { t }_{ 1 }{ t }_{ 2 }\quad =\quad -4\quad } \quad (1) . Now Using distance formula for OA and OB : ( a t 1 2 ) 2 + ( 2 a t 1 ) 2 = ( l 1 ) 2 . . . ( 2 ) ( a t 2 2 ) 2 + ( 2 a t 2 ) 2 = ( l 2 ) 2 . . . ( 3 ) { { (a{ t }_{ 1 } }^{ 2 }) }^{ 2 }\quad +\quad { (2a{ t }_{ 1 }) }^{ 2 }\quad =\quad { { (l }_{ 1 } })^{ 2 }\quad \quad .\quad .\quad .\quad (2)\\ \\ { { (a{ t }_{ 2 } }^{ 2 }) }^{ 2 }\quad +\quad { (2a{ t }_{ 2 }) }^{ 2 }\quad =\quad { { (l }_{ 2 } })^{ 2 }\quad \quad .\quad .\quad .\quad (3) .

we have 3 equation's and 3 variables , so on simplyfying it By making quadratic in ' t 2 t^2 ' we get :

( t 1 t 2 ) 2 = ( 4 a 2 + ( l 1 ) 2 2 a a ) ( 4 a 2 + ( l 2 ) 2 2 a a ) ( 4 ) \boxed { { (-{ t }_{ 1 }{ t }_{ 2 }) }^{ 2 }=\quad (\cfrac { \sqrt { { 4a }^{ 2 }+{ { { (l }_{ 1 } }) }^{ 2 } } -2a }{ a } )(\cfrac { \sqrt { { 4a }^{ 2 }+{ { { (l }_{ 2 } }) }^{ 2 } } -2a }{ a } ) } \quad (4) .

Now Solve this we should get

a = 9 13 L R = 36 13 A n s . a=\cfrac { 9 }{ \sqrt { 13 } } \quad \Rightarrow \quad \boxed { LR\quad =\quad \cfrac { 36 }{ \sqrt { 13 } } } \quad Ans. .

My approach doesn't have easy analitical Solution Even I used WolframAlpha in the ending of solution !

So Is there is any better approach ( My mind is Now chocked ) ?? @Sudeep Salgia

Deepanshu Gupta - 6 years, 5 months ago

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You can try using polar coordinates. It'll make the problem way more easy and short.

Chirag Trasikar - 6 years, 5 months ago

I have posted my solution.

Sudeep Salgia - 6 years, 5 months ago

you can use property if t1t2 = -p , then it passes through (pa,0) maybe

Akshat Chaudhary - 7 months, 3 weeks ago
Incredible Mind
Dec 29, 2014

i too used polar coordinates..but in a easier way.from sudeep salgia 's answer we know r1 and r2 in terms of (theta).Take r1/r2 and u will find tan(theta)=2/3 (i hope i am right). Now u can find sin(theta) and cos(theta) in terms of tan and simply put it into one of the eqn's and get 4a=latus rectum

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