Temperatures Interchanged

Ram has joined two rods A A and B B of different materials but the same length and cross-sectional area end to end, as shown. When he maintained the end of rod A A at 100 C 100\, ^\circ\text{C} and the end of rod B B at 0 C , 0\, ^\circ\text{C}, the temperature at the junction was found to be 70 C . 70\, ^\circ\text{C}.

If he reverses the end temperatures, i.e. if he maintains the end A A at 0 C 0\, ^\circ\text{C} and the end of B B at 100 C , 100\, ^\circ\text{C}, what will be the junction temperature?


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Lower than 70 C 70\, ^\circ\text{C} Equal to 70 C 70\, ^\circ\text{C} Higher than 70 C 70\, ^\circ\text{C}

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7 solutions

Ram Mohith
Dec 2, 2018

From the first experiment we can conclude that rod A is more conducting than rod B because the temperature difference between rod A A and junction ( = 3 0 C ) (= 30^\circ C) is less than that of rod B B and junction ( = 7 0 C ) (= 70^\circ C) . Or in other words rod B offers more resistance to the heat flow than rod A . So, in the second experiment when the heat flows from B A B \rightarrow A the temperature of the junction will be less than 7 0 C 70^\circ C due to more resistance from rod B B .

...but will the rods still have the same length and cross-sectional area as each other? ;-)

Chris Lewis - 2 years, 6 months ago

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Yes. They will have same cross-sectional area and length although there will be a slight expansion. We are neglecting that expansion because for solids the coefficient of linear expansion is very small (in the order of 1 0 5 10^{-5} ).

Ram Mohith - 2 years, 6 months ago

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The rods have different thermal properties so there is no reason to assume they will expand in the same way as each other - so the answer is really "not necessarily, but any difference would be negligible". In any case, it doesn't affect the answer to the question as you have phrased it, so my comment is also negligible!

Chris Lewis - 2 years, 6 months ago

The answer is pretty simple. Is there any reason the temperature wouldn't just be 30 degrees?

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 6 months ago

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It's just an assumption. If we take junction temperature as 60 the difference will be 40 (between A and junction) and hence even in this case A more conducting. The problem comes when temperature of the junction is less than 50 as B will be more conducting.

Ram Mohith - 2 years, 6 months ago

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I understand this. It's just that the choice of answer is "Less than 70" but why or why not would the numerical answer be 30?

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 6 months ago

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@Jeremy Galvagni To a first (and very good) approximation, the temperature will indeed be 30°.

But there are some implicit assumptions in this - the rods are treated as ideal, in some sense. Some real-world factors that would change the answer:

Firstly, the thermal expansion of the rods in the two scenarios is not necessarily the same (in fact, I think it would be difficult if not impossible for it to be the same). This moves the point of contact. Secondly, real-world rods would not be perfectly insulated along their lengths, and again, the different thermal properties of the rods would cause heat to be radiated differently. Thirdly, thermal conductivity varies (slightly) with temperature.

Each of these (and there are probably more) would have a small (but non-zero) effect on the final answer.

A list of assumptions, or a definition of an ideal rod, could be provided, in which case the answer would be 30°. Or - as the setter has done - a less precise answer option is perfectly valid. Or the thermal properties of both rods could be listed (though it may not then be a level 1 problem!).

Chris Lewis - 2 years, 6 months ago

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@Chris Lewis Thanks. So 30 is correct in the ideal case, but there are a lot of assumptions.

The insulation assumption is the most interesting to account for, but not sure how to go about incorporating heat gain/loss from the environment.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 6 months ago

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@Jeremy Galvagni Nope, I'm afraid I have no idea how to actually SOLVE the full version, but my inner pedant can happily point out points of modelling assumptions! (A character trait that is rarely encouraged, hence my jumping on the opportunity.)

Chris Lewis - 2 years, 6 months ago

@Jeremy Galvagni Yes. I tried it. I assumed that the thermal conductivity ( K ) (K) of rod A is twice that of rod B and has found out that the junction temperature is around 3 4 C 34^\circ C .

Ram Mohith - 2 years, 6 months ago

So, can we predict the temperature at the junction in the second case?

Sumant Chopde - 2 years, 5 months ago

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Yes we can find the junction temperature in second case if we know the relation (or) value of thermal conductivities of both metals A and B. But to predict it they are not required since from first case you can conclude that A is more conducting.

Ram Mohith - 1 year, 6 months ago

30°C sounds like fair assumption.

Pat Butler - 1 year, 4 months ago

Not understood

Joydeep Mohanto - 1 year, 4 months ago

I like this app! Never knew I was so sharp at eyeing solutions, thank God for brilliance!

Cadillac Jerm - 1 year, 3 months ago
Peter Macgregor
Feb 1, 2019

I found a solution by making an analogy with simple electric circuits. Think of temperature difference being like an electrical potential difference, and the flow of heat being like an electrical current. I also supposed that there is such a thing as thermal resistance, analogous to electrical resistance. The equivalent of ohms law is then

flow of heat between two points = temperature difference between the points thermal resistance \text{flow of heat between two points}=\frac{\text{temperature difference between the points}}{\text{thermal resistance}}

Now for both the illustrated cases the heat flowing into the junction must equal the heat flowing away from it. So the heat flow in each half of the bimetallic rods must be equal. So for the top rod:

30 R A = 70 R B R B R A = 70 30 \frac{30}{R_A}=\frac{70}{R_B}\\ \implies \frac{R_B}{R_A}=\frac{70}{30}

and for the bottom rod

T R A = 100 T R B R B R A = 100 T T \frac{T}{R_A}=\frac{100-T}{R_B}\\ \implies \frac{R_B}{R_A}=\frac{100-T}{T}

So we can say

70 30 = 100 T T \frac{70}{30}=\frac{100-T}{T}

This linear equation in T (which can be immediately solved by inspection!) yields

T = 30 T=30

and so T < 100 \boxed{\text{T < 100}}

This is quite literally the model we use to model heat flow as well. This isn't just analogous, the underlying models are exactly the same.

Anindya Mahajan - 1 year ago
Omri Weininger
Jan 29, 2019

In all honesty, I am not good at these kinds of questions but I have started to understand. If we think about it in the most simple way possible, we see that the junction is not the two temperature's average, and instead, we see that the temperature of the junction is closer to Rod A, by a difference of 30 degrees, and differs from B by 70 degrees.

My mind instantly went to flipping the temperatures around, making the junction temperature the same difference from ends A and B, and lo and behold, it gives 30 degrees, which is less than 70 degrees.

Someone who is able to see the intricacies in the question, I ask of you to help me understand any flaws in my logic, I can see that this is the case of the 4x4 square, perimeter/area controversy.

Your logic seems sound to me. The amount of heat flow has nothing to do with the direction of heat flow. Right?

Richard Desper - 1 year, 6 months ago
Satyabrata Dash
Jan 26, 2019

I will give a very simple explanation..

A is holding a greater amount of heat or is having a higher heat capacity, or B is having lesser heat capacity or will hold less amount of heat

So in the 2nd case b will lose heat rapidly and the temperature T will become lesser than 70 degrees.

Rate of heat flow in the first case yields the ratio of thermal conductivities of A and B to be equal to 7/3 . In the second case, rate of heat flow yields the junction temperatue equal to 30 degree Celsius, which is less than 70 degree Celsius.

A must be radiating heat less then B, as such if they are reversed then B will radiate more heat.

Bernard Zimmermann - 1 year, 4 months ago

In the first scenario, it is shown that rod A meeting rod B (A = 100°C, B = 0°C) and the temperature at the point of intersection is 70°C. The average of these temperatures would be 50°C if the rods were the same material, but it is indeed 70°C meaning that rod A must have a higher temperature resistance (or heat capacity) than rod B, which has a lower heat resistance/capacity. This results in the temperature being closer to rod A's initial temperature.

Therefore, T must have the same properties meaning that the temperature would be closer to rod A's initial temperature (0°C) and at least lower than 50°C, which is lower than 70°C.

曹 佳诺
Feb 14, 2020

There is fomula thatQ=CmΔT. Q is heat absorbed or released. C is specific heat capacity. ΔT is the change of temepature. Frist,Qa always equil to Qb. In the first experiment,we can know that ΔTa1 is 30 ℃,and ΔTb1 is 70℃. so,70Ca=30Cb. Then,in the second experiment, ΔTa2\ΔTb2=30\70

and ΔTa2+ΔTb2=100℃, so ΔTa2 is 30℃,and the junction is 30℃,of couse less than 70℃

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