The Arithmetic Machine

Algebra Level 1

Alice and Bob have an arithmetic machine. The machine takes in a real number, does some processing and outputs a real number. Specifically, the machine works as follows:

Now suppose the following:

  • Alice entered a number into the machine and got back 100.
  • Bob also entered a number and got back 100.

Does this mean that both Alice and Bob entered the same number?

Yes, definitely No, not necessarily

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17 solutions

Ravneet Singh
Jul 9, 2017

Let the input be X X . Then machine will do processing like 2 X 2 X , then 2 X + 2 2 X + 2 and final output will be ( 2 X + 2 ) 2 (2 X + 2)^2 .

Now both the outputs of Bob and Alice are 100 100 . So, it simply means

( 2 X + 2 ) 2 = 100 (2 X + 2)^2 = 100

4 ( X + 1 ) 2 = 100 4 (X + 1)^2 = 100

( X + 1 ) 2 = 25 (X +1)^2 = 25

X + 1 = ± 5 X + 1 = \pm 5

X = ± 5 1 = 4 X = \pm 5 - 1 = \boxed 4 or 6 \boxed {-6}

Moderator note:

This problem hits upon the idea of reversible operations.

Some operations, like multiplying by 2, are reversible. This is because multiplying by 2 is a one-to-one function and has a unique solution; this makes it possible to "trace back" the steps.

Squaring is not reversible because the function is not one-to-one. Since applying the squaring function to a a and a -a results in a 2 a^2 in both cases, we are unclear where the starting point came from.

This idea of reversible operations is a good one to have in mind with some styles of proofs, especially in trigonometry. If are trying to prove, given a statement A , A, that B B is true, it's possible to simply start from B B and prove A A as long as every step is a reversible operation . This means the proof can then be extrapolated backwards.

I'm so bad at math! Even with it written down I can't follow. So bad😩

Deon Alexis - 3 years, 11 months ago

Why is the second line of working not 2(X + 1)^2 = 100 if you don't mind me asking? Thanks for the explanation :)

Susie Dinning - 3 years, 11 months ago

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here 2 2 is taken common from the square of an expression, therefore 2 2 = 4 2^2 = 4 , comes out.

Ravneet Singh - 3 years, 11 months ago

Response to Challenge Master: What operations are really not reversible? Meet secure hashing algorithms

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 11 months ago

Both 4 4 and 6 -6 would give 100 100 as :

4 8 10 100 4 \rightarrow 8 \rightarrow 10 \rightarrow 100

( 6 ) ( 12 ) ( 10 ) 100 (-6) \rightarrow (-12) \rightarrow (-10) \rightarrow 100

Is there another value (other than 4 and -6) that also gives a value of 100?

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 11 months ago

Does the square means to find square root, or to Pow by 2?

Јован Антић - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Power of 2.

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 11 months ago
Zach Abueg
Jun 29, 2017

Let x x be any positive real number that results after multiplying by 2 2 and adding 2 2 , the first two operations. Observe that both ( x ) 2 (x)^2 and ( x ) 2 (- x)^2 will result in x 2 x^2 . Thus, the same number could have resulted from two different initial numbers entering the arithmetic machine.

In this case, Alice's number could have been 4 4 , and Bob's 6 - 6 .

I agree with your argument. Not sure I agree with your result, however... It should be 4 and -6.

Geoff Pilling - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Thanks! And man, I just realized @Agnishom Chattopadhyay edited the problem /: When I answered the problem, it was that Alice and Bob both got 5 5 .

Zach Abueg - 3 years, 11 months ago

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Yes, sorry about that. I just wanted them to be integers.

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 11 months ago

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@Agnishom Chattopadhyay No worries! I understand :)

Zach Abueg - 3 years, 11 months ago
Surya Subbarao
Jul 1, 2017

Squaring can give the same answer, 100 for two different inputs (e.g. 10 and -10). Therefore, Alice could have inputted a number which resulted in 10 when it got to the squaring step and Bob could have inputted a number which resulted in -10 when it got to the squaring step, but they would both still get the same output.

I think you mean ± 10 \pm 10 ?

Geoff Pilling - 3 years, 11 months ago

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It could be plus or minus anything..

Surya Subbarao - 3 years, 11 months ago

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But she got back 100

Geoff Pilling - 3 years, 11 months ago

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@Geoff Pilling Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Thanks...

Surya Subbarao - 3 years, 11 months ago
Mohammad Khaza
Jul 11, 2017

if we input 4,

the result would be=(4 x 2 +2)^2=100

if, we put -6. the result would be= (-6 x 2 +2)^2=100.

so,it is not necessary for them to input the same digit

Gerson Tavarez
Jul 10, 2017

If the input is X, the arithmetic machine performs the equation (2x+2)^2=4x^2+8x+4. Since both Alice and Bob got 100 as an answer, this means that 4x^2+8x+4=100. Simplyfying, we get x^2+2x-24=0. Solving for x with the quadratic formula, with a=1, b=2 and c=-24, the answers are that x=-1+/-5, meaning that x=-6 and x=-4. Therefore, there are three possible scenarios: either both entered -6, both entered 4, or one entered -6 while the other entered 4.

Joshua Powles
Jul 10, 2017

( 2 x + 2 ) 2 = 100 (2x+2)^2=100 has two solutions, x=4 and x=-6

Let the input be x x , then we have:

( 2 x + 2 ) 2 = 100 Taking the square root both sides 2 x + 2 = ± 10 x = { 10 2 2 = 4 10 2 2 = 6 \begin{aligned} (2x+2)^2 & = 100 & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Taking the square root both sides } \\ 2x + 2 & = \pm 10 \\ \implies x & = \begin{cases} \dfrac {10-2}2 = 4 \\ \dfrac {-10-2}2 = -6 \end{cases} \end{aligned}

No, not necessarily , as the input x x can take on two values.

Matthew Warwick
Jul 15, 2017

What we need to remember is that basic arithmetic (addition, subtraction, multiplication and division) can only have one possible answer.

This means that in this case:

Multiply by 2
Add 2

Can only give one answer.

However, squaring is a bit more complicated. You can do:

6 × 6 6\times6

to get 36, but keep in mind the rule of multiplying negative numbers:

plus times plus equals plus
plus times minus equals minus
minus times plus equals minus
minus times minus equals plus


That last rule means that:

6 × 6 -6\times-6

also equals 36.

It should also be noted that squaring is multiplying a number by itself.

Robert DeLisle
Jul 14, 2017

The machine evaluates a quadratic expression ( 2 x + 2 ) 2 2x + 2)^2 .

The numbers entered in this case are the roots of a quadratic equation x 2 + 2 x 24 = 0 x^2 + 2x - 24 = 0 derived from ( 2 x + 2 ) 2 100 = 0 (2x + 2)^2 - 100 = 0 . This expression can be factored as ( x 4 ) ( x + 6 ) (x - 4)(x + 6) showing that this equation has two distinct roots 4 and -6. Thus two different numbers entered can produce the same result.

Varun Chaturvedi
Sep 3, 2017

Let the input number be x. Therefore, the final output is ( 2 x + 2 ) 2 (2x + 2)^{2} .

Therefore, ( 2 x + 2 ) 2 = 100 (2x + 2)^{2}=100 .

Therefore, 2 x + 2 = + 10 2x + 2=+10

OR

2 x + 2 = 10 2x + 2=-10

Solving this gives us: x = 4 x = 4 OR x = 6 x = -6

So it is quite possible that Alice and Bob input different values.

Let the input be x, so the machine will multiply it 1st with 2 i.e. 2x then 2x+2, then (2x+2)^2... Now to get output as 100, (2x+2)^2 = 100 Hence we get x = 4 or -6

Doug Fraser
Jul 13, 2017

10 - 2 = 8 / 2 = 4 OR -10 - 2 = -12 /2 = -6 So the solution set is (-6,4)

Dave Mckendrick
Jul 11, 2017

Input could be a negative value or a positive value

How do you know that? Maybe all the inputs must be positive only?

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 11 months ago
Rocco Dalto
Jul 11, 2017

X 2 X 2 X + 2 ( 2 X + 2 ) 2 = 4 ( X + 1 ) 2 = 100 X \rightarrow 2X \rightarrow 2X + 2 \rightarrow (2X + 2)^2 = 4(X + 1)^2 = 100

X 2 + 2 X 24 = 0 X = 6 , 4 \implies X^2 + 2X - 24 = 0 \implies X = -6,4

100 as a result means that 10 OR -10 could have been squared to reach that point. Thus, the answers would be 4 and -6.

Shah Faisal
Jul 6, 2017

Enter the numbers 4 and -6 you would get 100 answer so it is not necessary that both have entered the same numbers..

How do you know that the 2 numbers must be 4 and -6? Did you try trial and error?

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 11 months ago

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