The Coin Problem!

Logic Level 4

Aaron, Brian, Calvin, Daniel and Peter are going to divide n n coins among themselves knowing that:

  • Everyone receives at least one coin.

  • Aaron gets fewer coins than Brian, who gets fewer coins than Calvin, who gets fewer than Daniel, who gets fewer than Peter.

  • Each person knows only the total n n and how many coins he got.

What is the smallest possible value of n n such that there exists at least one possible configurational distribution of the coins such that nobody can deduce the number of coins received by each of the others without more information?

Image Credit: Daily Financial


The answer is 19.

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2 solutions

We know that the minimum possible value for n n is 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = 15. 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = 15.

Now if n = 15 , n = 15, since there is only one possible distribution of coins everyone will know how many coins the others have received.

For n = 16 n = 16 the only possible distribution of coins is ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 6 ) , (1,2,3,4,6), so again all will know the distribution.

For n = 17 n = 17 the only possible distributions are ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 7 ) (1,2,3,4,7) and ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 6 ) . (1,2,3,5,6). In both cases both Peter and Daniel will know what the others have received. (For example, in Peter's case, if he gets 7 7 coins he knows that there is only one valid distribution of 10 10 coins to the 4 4 others, and if he gets 6 6 coins he knows that there is only one valid distribution of 11 11 coins to the 4 4 others.)

For n = 18 n = 18 we know that the maximum number of coins that Peter can receive is 8. 8. The possible distributions are then ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 8 ) , ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 7 ) (1,2,3,4,8), (1,2,3,5,7) and ( 1 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 6 ) . (1,2,4,5,6). In each of these cases Peter, (and Peter alone), will know how the remaining coins are distributed to the others.

Now for n = 19 , n = 19, look at the distribution ( 1 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 7 ) (1,2,4,5,7) and how it plays out for each person:

  • From Peter's perspective there are two possible distributions, namely ( 1 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 7 ) (1,2,4,5,7) and ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 6 , 7 ) . (1,2,3,6,7).

  • For Daniel, it could be ( 1 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 7 ) , ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 8 ) (1,2,4,5,7), (1,2,3,5,8) or ( 1 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 ) . (1,3,4,5,6).

  • For Calvin, it could be ( 1 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 7 ) (1,2,4,5,7) or ( 1 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 ) . (1,3,4,5,6).

  • For Brian, it could be ( 1 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 7 ) , ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 6 , 7 ) (1,2,4,5,7), (1,2,3,6,7) or ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 8 ) . (1,2,3,5,8).

  • For Aaron, it could be ( 1 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 7 ) , ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 6 , 7 ) , ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 8 ) (1,2,4,5,7), (1,2,3,6,7), (1,2,3,5,8) or ( 1 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 ) . (1,3,4,5,6).

So for n = 19 , n = 19, there exists a distribution in which none of the people can be certain of what all the others have received without being given further information. Thus the smallest possible value of n n is 19 . \boxed{19}.

In the required distribution can anyone know at least one other's amount of coin?

MD Omur Faruque - 5 years, 9 months ago

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Initially all they know is where they are in the "order", the number of coins they themselves have received and the total number of coins distributed. The question is whether there exists a distribution (for a given n n ) such that at least one of the five people can deduce with certainty how many coins the other four people have received.

Brian Charlesworth - 5 years, 9 months ago

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Thanks, but I got that already from your solution.

Actually, the question seemed something different to me. I thought in the required distribution no one can know even one of the others coin.

For example, in your solution Brian can be certain that Aaron has got 1 coin.

MD Omur Faruque - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Md Omur Faruque Oh, o.k., I see what you mean now. My interpretation was that knowing some of the others is permissible, but that knowing all the others is what is not permissible, which I think was the intent of the phrase "... received by each of the others ...". The question has gone through one rephrasing already, and I can't see at the moment a better way of doing it. Any suggestions?

Brian Charlesworth - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Brian Charlesworth I think an explicit example in the question would have been great.

MD Omur Faruque - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Md Omur Faruque Exactly what I did. Nice Solution! Explained it really well.

Karthik Sharma - 5 years, 9 months ago

I still think that the question should be rephrased, like add (for this n, they might be able to deduce SOME of the others' coins, but not ALL of them).

Saya Suka - 4 years, 7 months ago

In the case n=19, peter will know the coins got by Aaron in any case, but the question says no one should know the coins of each of the leftovers.

Bhashwar Ghosh - 4 years, 3 months ago
Will Wombell
Aug 24, 2015

Edit: I misunderstood the question, the solution is discussed below.

The only way each person cannot tell the number of coins anyone else has is if there are multiple choices for the number of coins each of the others could've got.

The easiest way to start is by concluding the Brian cannot get only 2 coins as then he could instantly tell that since Aaron must have fewer coins than him he must only have 1 coin. If Brian has 3 coins, Aaron could have 1 or 2 coins.

We can continue this for each person so Calvin gets 4 coins as Brian could have 2 or 3 coins and so on.

In the end we get this: Brian gets 3 coins Calvin gets 4 coins Daniel gets 5 coins Peter gets 6 coins

We can now say Aaron should get 1 coin as it is the smallest possible number and if he got 2 coins he could deduce from the original number of coins what everyone else got.

Therefore we can see the answer is a total of 1+3+4+5+6=19.

Edit: I misunderstood the question, the solution is discussed below.

What about the configuration ( 1 , 2 , 4 , 5 , 7 ) (1,2,4,5,7) ? In this configuration, nobody can deduce anything. I also couldn't understand what you're trying to explain in your solution.

Satyajit Mohanty - 5 years, 9 months ago

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Sorry, I should've explained better. In that configuration Brian can deduce that Aaron must have 1 coin as there is no other amount Aaron could have since he must receive a coin but cannot receive more coins than Brian.

In the question do you mean they must be able to deduce the number of coins EVERYONE else had because in that case I misunderstood the question.

Will Wombell - 5 years, 9 months ago

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In the question do you mean they must be able to deduce the number of coins EVERYONE else had

Well, yes! There should be a configuration such that nobody of them could be able to deduce the coins everyone else had exactly.

Satyajit Mohanty - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Satyajit Mohanty Ok, thanks I understand now.

Will Wombell - 5 years, 9 months ago

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