Tons of Triangles

Geometry Level 1

All points on a Cartesian plane are colored either red \color{#D61F06}{\text{red}} or blue \color{#3D99F6}{\text{blue}} .

For all positive numbers r , r, there exists a non-degenerate isosceles triangle with legs of length r r whose vertices are all colored __________ \text{\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_} .

Is the statement above true for at least one of the colors?


Note: A degenerate triangle is one where all three vertices lie on a straight line.

Yes, always It depends on the coloring No, never

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1 solution

Brandon Monsen
Aug 8, 2017

Assume that none of the colors are required to have this property. Then there will exist two lengths r b r\geq b such that no three red points form an isosceles triangle whose legs have length r r , and no three blue points form an isosceles triangle whose legs have length b b . (note that we may have to swap the colors to have this inequality hold)

Consider a circle of radius r r centered at a red point. Then at most two points on this circle are colored red (diametrically opposite points won't form a triangle) and the rest of the circle is blue.

However, since b r b \leq r , we can pick three blue points on the circle P , Q , R P, Q, R such that P Q = Q R = b PQ=QR=b , making a blue isosceles triangle whose legs have length b b , a contradiction. The conclusion follows that at least one of the colors has the desired property.

My idea was quite similar - pick 2 such PQR, P'Q'R' arbitrarily, with PQ=QR=P'Q'=Q'R'=b. Then either one of them is monotone, or you can take 1 point from each triangle along with the centre to form the desired triangle.

Matt McNabb - 3 years, 9 months ago

In such a case, it is usually better to just ask "yes or no". The counter examples to "all / multiple are possible" are often obvious.

In addition, the condition of "uncountably infinite points of each other" muddies up the statement.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

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You're right. Simply saying they are colored red or blue includes the case where there are an uncountably infinite number of points of both colors, and so it must be considered either way.

That being said, I can't find how to change the number of options to just yes/no to fix the problem. Should I just leave it be?

Brandon Monsen - 3 years, 10 months ago

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I've made the edits.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

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@Calvin Lin For this, there is still obvious case of the entire plane being colored blue to show that never isn't the answer? I'd argue this is more obvious than the other case (Similar to what Ivan said)

This also changes the question a bit to where you no longer have to show that one color attains all leg lengths, but rather that all leg lengths are attained.

Would it be a good thing to change the phrasing to "Does at least one color have the property that for every real number r > 0 r>0 , there exists a non-degenerate isosceles triangle, whose legs have length r r , such that each of the vertices are the chosen color"?

Brandon Monsen - 3 years, 10 months ago

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@Brandon Monsen Oh ic. I misinterpreted your question. Let me rephrase it.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

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@Calvin Lin Added "with vertices of the chosen color".

I like the phrasing much more now, even though one of the options is more easily ruled out.

Brandon Monsen - 3 years, 10 months ago

In this particular problem, I don't see the "all are possible" case being obviously ruled out; it takes some thought to come up with the line example. (Because the obvious example of there being only finitely many points of a color (in particular, zero) is ruled out.)

Ivan Koswara - 3 years, 10 months ago

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I'm curious as to what the stats are for how many people chose each option. If some people picked two after proving it for one then there's an argument that the extra option was a good thing.

Brandon Monsen - 3 years, 10 months ago

Another counter example is to let the blue points be a bounded subset. Then pick r > r > diameter of the set.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

Is this related to Ramsey Theorem

massimo 22 - 3 years, 9 months ago

i didnt understand the problem?

Arpit Farkya - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Can you elaborate? What did you not understand about the problem?

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 8 months ago

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