Triangle Polynomial

Geometry Level 4

A right triangle has side lengths that are the roots of the polynomial x 3 20 x 2 + k x 17 , x^3 - 20x^2 + kx - 17, where k k is some positive real number. The area of the triangle can be written in the form p q , p - \sqrt{q}, where p p and q q are positive integers and q q is not divisible by the square of any prime.

Find p + q p + q .


The answer is 2465.

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2 solutions

Chew-Seong Cheong
May 28, 2017

Let the side lengths and hence the roots of the polynomial be a a , b b and c c with c c being the hypotenuse and hence by Pythagorean theorem a 2 + b 2 = c 2 a^2+b^2 = c^2 . From Vieta's formula , we have { a + b + c = 20 . . . ( 1 ) a b c = 17 . . . ( 2 ) \begin{cases} a+b+c = 20 & ...(1) \\ abc = 17 &...(2) \end{cases}

From equation (1):

a + b + c = 20 a + b = 20 c Squaring both sides a 2 + 2 a b + b 2 = 400 40 c + c 2 Note that a 2 + b 2 = c 2 a b = 200 20 c Multiplying both sides by c a b c = 200 c 20 c 2 Note that (2): a b c = 17 20 c 2 200 c + 17 = 0 Solving the quadratic for c c = 50 + 2415 10 50 2415 10 0.0857 too small for c \begin{aligned} a+b+c & = 20 \\ a+b & = 20 - c & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Squaring both sides} \\ {\color{#3D99F6}a^2} + 2ab + {\color{#3D99F6}b^2} & = 400-40c+{\color{#3D99F6}c^2} & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Note that }a^2+b^2=c^2 \\ ab & = 200-20c & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Multiplying both sides by }c \\ \color{#3D99F6}abc & = 200c -20c^2 & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Note that (2): }abc = 17 \\ 20c^2 - 200c + 17 & = 0 & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Solving the quadratic for }c \\ \implies c & = \frac {50+\sqrt{2415}}{10} & \small \color{#3D99F6} \frac {50-\sqrt{2415}}{10} \approx 0.0857 \text{ too small for }c \end{aligned}

The area of the triangle is

A = a b 2 = a b c 2 c = 17 2 50 + 2415 10 = 85 ( 50 2415 ) ( 50 + 2415 ) ( 50 2415 ) = 50 2415 A = \dfrac {ab}2 = \dfrac {ab\color{#3D99F6}c}{2\color{#3D99F6}c} = \dfrac {17}{2 \cdot \frac {50+\sqrt{2415}}{10}} = \dfrac {85(50-\sqrt{2415})}{(50+\sqrt{2415})(50-\sqrt{2415})} = 50-\sqrt{2415}

p + q = 50 + 2415 = 2465 \implies p+q = 50+2415 = \boxed{2465}

Steven Yuan
May 26, 2017

Let a , b , c a, b, c be the roots of the polynomial. WLOG, suppose a b < c a \leq b < c . Since a , b , c a, b, c are the side lengths of a right triangle, we must have a 2 + b 2 = c 2 a^2 + b^2 = c^2 by the Pythagorean Theorem. Furthermore, from Vieta's, we have

a + b + c = 20 a b c = 17. \begin{aligned} a + b + c &= 20 \\ abc &= 17. \end{aligned}

The first equation can be written as a + b = 20 c , a + b = 20 - c, while the second equation can be written as a b = 17 c . ab = \dfrac{17}{c}.

Now, we use the fact that ( a + b ) 2 = a 2 + b 2 + 2 a b . (a + b)^2 = a^2 + b^2 + 2ab. Substituting, we can get a quadratic equation in terms of only c c :

( a + b ) 2 = a 2 + b 2 + 2 a b ( 20 c ) 2 = c 2 + 2 ( 17 c ) 400 40 c + c 2 = c 2 + 34 c 400 40 c = 34 c 400 c 40 c 2 = 34 40 c 2 + 400 c 34 = 0 20 c 2 200 c + 17 = 0. \begin{aligned} (a + b)^2 &= a^2 + b^2 + 2ab \\ (20 - c)^2 &= c^2 + 2 \left ( \dfrac{17}{c} \right ) \\ 400 - 40c + c^2 &= c^2 + \dfrac{34}{c} \\ 400 - 40c &= \dfrac{34}{c} \\ 400c - 40c^2 &= 34 \\ -40c^2 + 400c - 34 &= 0 \\ 20c^2 - 200c + 17 &= 0. \end{aligned}

Applying the quadratic formula (and skipping over all the arithmetic), we get c = 50 ± 2415 10 . c = \dfrac{50 \pm \sqrt{2415}}{10}.

But, there are two possible values for c c ! Which one do we choose? (Of course, only one of the choices for c c gives the area in the form we want, but this solution makes it more rigorous.)

EDIT: As Wei Chen points out, we can use the fact that a 2 + b 2 2 a b a^2 + b^2 \geq 2ab to get c 2 34 c c^2 \geq \dfrac{34}{c} , or c 3 4 1 / 3 c \geq 34^{1/3} . This immediately gets rid of the smaller value of c c , so we can skip all the proceeding work.


We can get a hint from our original equations involving a a and b . b. If we substitute our value of c c back into these equations, we find that

a b = 17 50 ± 2415 10 = 17 10 50 ± 2415 = 2 85 ( 50 2415 ) 2500 2415 = 2 ( 50 2415 ) \begin{aligned} ab &= \dfrac{17}{\frac{50 \pm \sqrt{2415}}{10}} \\ &= \dfrac{17 \cdot 10}{50 \pm \sqrt{2415}} \\ &= \dfrac{2 \cdot 85(50 \mp \sqrt{2415})}{2500 - 2415} \\ &= 2(50 \mp \sqrt{2415}) \\ \end{aligned}

and

a + b = 20 50 ± 2415 10 = 150 2415 10 = 100 + 50 2415 10 . \begin{aligned} a + b &= 20 - \dfrac{50 \pm \sqrt{2415}}{10} \\ &= \dfrac{150 \mp \sqrt{2415}}{10} \\ &= \dfrac{100 + 50 \mp \sqrt{2415}}{10}. \end{aligned}

Let C = 50 ± 2415 , C = 50 \pm \sqrt{2415}, where we choose one of either the plus or the minus sign. Now, we have the system of equations

a + b = C + 100 10 a b = 2 C . \begin{aligned} a + b &= \dfrac{C + 100}{10} \\ ab &= 2C. \end{aligned}

The second equation gives b = 2 C a . b = \dfrac{2C}{a}. Substituting this into the first equation gives

a + 2 C a = C + 100 a 10 a 2 + 20 C = ( C + 100 ) a 10 a 2 ( C + 100 ) a + 20 C = 0. \begin{aligned} a + \dfrac{2C}{a} &= \dfrac{C + 100}{a} \\ 10a^2 + 20C &= (C + 100)a \\ 10a^2 - (C + 100)a + 20C &= 0. \end{aligned}

The solutions to this equation, through the quadratic formula and a little simplification, are a = ( C + 100 ) ± C 2 600 C + 10 0 2 20 . a = \dfrac{(C + 100) \pm \sqrt{C^2 - 600C + 100^2}}{20}.

If C = 50 + 2415 C = 50 + \sqrt{2415} (corresponding to c = 50 2415 10 c = \dfrac{50 - \sqrt{2415}}{10} ), then we can say C 100. C \approx 100. This shows that C 2 600 C + 10 0 2 < 0 , C^2 - 600C + 100^2 < 0, so a a cannot be a real number. This cannot happen, as a a is a side length in a triangle.

However, if C = 50 2415 C = 50 - \sqrt{2415} (corresponding to c = 50 + 2415 10 c = \dfrac{50 + \sqrt{2415}}{10} ), then C 0 , C \approx 0, and C 2 600 C + 10 0 2 > 0. C^2 - 600C + 100^2 > 0. What's more, because C C is slightly above 0 , 0, C 2 600 C + 10 0 2 C^2 - 600C + 100^2 is slightly less than 10 0 2 100^2 , so a a is less than C + 100 ± 100 20 , \dfrac{C + 100 \pm 100}{20}, which is a real number no matter whether we choose the positive or the negative sign. Similarly, b b must also be a real number. Thus, in order to have a right triangle, we must choose C = 50 2415 . C = 50 - \sqrt{2415}.


Going all the way back, we now see that a b = 2 ( 50 2415 ) . ab = 2(50 - \sqrt{2415}). The area of the right triangle is, therefore, equal to a b 2 = 50 2415 \dfrac{ab}{2} = 50 - \sqrt{2415} , and p + q = 50 + 2415 = 2465 . p + q = 50 + 2415 = \boxed{2465}.

Addendum: The right triangle has side lengths

a = ( 150 + 2415 ) + ( 50 2415 ) 2 600 ( 50 2415 ) + 10 0 2 20 9.913 b = ( 150 + 2415 ) ( 50 2415 ) 2 600 ( 50 2415 ) + 10 0 2 20 0.173 c = 50 + 2415 10 9.914. a = \dfrac{(150 + \sqrt{2415}) + \sqrt{(50 - \sqrt{2415})^2 - 600(50 - \sqrt{2415}) + 100^2}}{20} \approx 9.913 \\ b = \dfrac{(150 + \sqrt{2415}) - \sqrt{(50 - \sqrt{2415})^2 - 600(50 - \sqrt{2415}) + 100^2}}{20} \approx 0.173 \\ c = \dfrac{50 + \sqrt{2415}}{10} \approx 9.914.

One can check that a 2 + b 2 = c 2 , a^2 + b^2 = c^2, along with all the other equations involving Vieta's.

We can use the inequality a^2+b^2 >= 2ab, to get c^2 >= 2(17/c), which gives c >= (34)^1/3. This rules out the smaller solution of c right away.

Wei Chen - 4 years ago

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There's the simplification! I wrote my solution late at night, so it was easy for me to miss shortcuts like that. Thanks!

Steven Yuan - 4 years ago

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Sure Steven, nice problem and well-written solution!

Wei Chen - 4 years ago

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@Wei Chen Thank you! :)

Steven Yuan - 4 years ago

The main part of the problem is look for 'right' value of c c .. :-p

Rishabh Jain - 4 years ago

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Pretty much, although that's easy based on the form that the answer is supposed to be in. My solution just makes it more rigorous and shows that the other selection does not work.

Steven Yuan - 4 years ago

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