Two-mass pendulum

A simple pendulum of length \ell and bob mass m m undergoes small oscillations with the standard period T = 2 π g . T = 2\pi\sqrt{\frac{\ell}g}.

We now attach the second string of length \ell , with a bob of mass 12 m , 12m, and hang it from the first bob. If we give a small kick to the bob of mass m , m, initially the larger mass will hardly move while the small mass will oscillate with period T T^\prime .

Find T T . \frac{T^\prime}T.


Note: The ropes are massless and flexible.

0.08 0.10 0.20 0.28 0.29 1.00

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5 solutions

Mark Hennings
Aug 28, 2017

Relevant wiki: Pendulums

If θ \theta is the angle between the upper string and the vertical, and ϕ \phi is the angle between the lower string and the vertical, then the kinetic energy of the system is T = 1 2 m 2 [ 13 θ ˙ 2 + 12 ϕ ˙ 2 + 24 cos ( θ ϕ ) θ ˙ ϕ ˙ ] T \; = \; \tfrac12m\ell^2\big[13\dot\theta^2 + 12\dot\phi^2 + 24\cos(\theta-\phi)\dot\theta\dot\phi \big] and the gravitational potential energy of the system is V = 13 m g cos θ 12 m g cos ϕ V \; = \; -13mg\ell \cos\theta - 12mg\ell \cos\phi We are interested in small oscillations, and so we look for small order approximations. Thus T . 1 2 m 2 x ˙ T ( 13 12 12 12 ) x ˙ V 1 2 m g x T ( 13 0 0 12 ) x + c T \; \approx. \; \tfrac12m\ell^2 \dot{\mathbf{x}}^T \left(\begin{array}{cc} 13 & 12 \\ 12 & 12 \end{array}\right) \dot{\mathbf{x}} \hspace{2cm} V \; \approx \; \tfrac12mg\ell \mathbf{x}^T \left(\begin{array}{cc} 13 & 0 \\ 0 & 12 \end{array}\right) \mathbf{x} + c where x = ( θ ϕ ) \mathbf{x} = \binom{\theta}{\phi} and c c is a constant. Thus Lagrange's equations of motion read m 2 ( 13 12 12 12 ) x ¨ = m g ( 13 0 0 12 ) x m\ell^2 \left(\begin{array}{cc} 13 & 12 \\ 12 & 12 \end{array}\right)\ddot{\mathbf{x}} \; = \; -mg\ell\left(\begin{array}{cc} 13 & 0 \\ 0 & 12 \end{array}\right) \mathbf{x} Looking for normal modes of oscillation, we look for solutions of the form x = e i λ t u \mathbf{x} = e^{i\lambda t}\mathbf{u} for a constant λ \lambda and a constant vector u \mathbf{u} , Thus m 2 λ 2 ( 13 12 12 12 ) u ¨ = m g ( 13 0 0 12 ) u [ ( 13 0 0 12 ) λ 2 g ( 13 12 12 12 ) ] e = 0 [ ( 13 12 13 13 ) λ 2 g I ] e = 0 \begin{aligned} -m\ell^2\lambda^2 \left(\begin{array}{cc} 13 & 12 \\ 12 & 12 \end{array}\right)\ddot{\mathbf{u}}& = \; -mg\ell\left(\begin{array}{cc} 13 & 0 \\ 0 & 12 \end{array}\right) \mathbf{u} \\ \left[ \left(\begin{array}{cc} 13 & 0 \\ 0 & 12 \end{array} \right) - \tfrac{\ell \lambda^2}{g}\left(\begin{array}{cc}13 & 12 \\ 12 & 12 \end{array}\right)\right] \mathbf{e} & = \; \mathbf{0} \\ \left[ \left(\begin{array}{cc} 13 & -12 \\ -13 & 13 \end{array}\right) - \tfrac{\ell \lambda^2}{g} I\right]\mathbf{e} & = \; \mathbf{0} \end{aligned} Solving this eigensystem, we see that possible values of λ \lambda are given by λ 2 g = 13 ± 2 39 \tfrac{\ell \lambda^2}{g} \; = \; 13 \pm 2\sqrt{39} with corresponding vectors e = ( 2 3 13 1 ) \mathbf{e} \; =\; \left(\begin{array}{c} \mp2\sqrt{\tfrac{3}{13}} \\ 1 \end{array}\right) The first of these has e = ( 0.961 1 ) ( 1 1 ) \mathbf{e} = \binom{-0.961}{1} \approx \binom{-1}{1} , which corresponds to the motion where the second bob is roughly stationary. Thus we deduce that T T = 1 13 + 2 39 = 0.198068 0.20 \frac{T'}{T} \; = \; \frac{1}{\sqrt{13+2\sqrt{39}}} \; = \; 0.198068 \; \approx \; \boxed{0.20}

So beautiful. Thanks for the more correct solution. I specified such a large mass ratio so that my solution can be simple and approximately correct.

The way the system is initially prepared (giving the smaller mas a momentum, and leaving the larger mass at rest) does not excite a pure normal mode. Accordingly, the energy of the motion will flow back and forth between the normal modes and there will be later time when the larger mass will have significant movement.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 9 months ago
Laszlo Mihaly
Aug 16, 2017

Relevant wiki: Pendulums

We will use the same approximations about small amplitude oscillations that are used to solve the simple pendulum problem.

When the masses are at rest the tension in the lower rope is M g Mg and the tension in the upper rope is ( M + m ) g (M+m)g . For small amplitude oscillations the tensions will be the same.

Consider the situation when the mass m m has moved in the horizontal direction by distance x x . At this point in time the upper rope makes an angle ϕ \phi to the vertical, where sin ϕ = x / l \sin \phi =x/l . (Of course, in reality, the mass moves on an arc of length ϕ l \phi l , but for small displacements the vertical component of the movement is negligible.) The horizontal component of the force acting on the mass m m will be F 1 = ( x / l ) ( M + m ) g F_1=-(x/l) (M+m)g , where the negative sign indicates that the force is opposite to the displacement. For the lower rope we can assume that the large mass is not moving sideways and therefore the lower rope will also make an angle ϕ \phi to the vertical. Consequently, the horizontal component of the force due to the lower rope on m m will be F 2 = ( x / l ) M g F_2=-(x/l) Mg . Here we neglected the vertical movement of the large mass, which is justified by the small displacement approximation.

The equation of motion is m a = F 1 + F 2 = ( x / l ) ( m + 2 M ) g ma=F_1+F_2= - (x/l) (m+2M)g , where a a is the acceleration. This results in harmonic oscillations with a period of T = 2 π m m + 2 M l g = m m + 2 M T 0 = 1 5 T 0 T=2 \pi \sqrt{\frac{m}{m+2M} \frac{l}{g}} = \sqrt{\frac {m}{m+2M}} T_0 = \frac{1}{5} T_0 . We get a = 0.20 a=0.20 .

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Assumption: larger mass moves only vertically. The rationale is that the vertical forces on the lower object are much larger than horizontal forces.

If the upper string is deflected by an angle θ \theta , then the deflection of the upper weight is given by:

x 1 = l s i n θ l θ x_1=l sin \theta \approx l \theta

y 1 = l ( 1 c o s θ ) 1 2 l θ 2 y_1=l (1-cos \theta) \approx \frac{1}{2}l\theta^2

v 1 x ˙ 1 l θ ˙ v_1\approx \dot x_1\approx l\dot \theta

Lower weight deflect only verticaly and:

y 2 = 2 l ( 1 c o s θ ) l θ 2 y_2=2l(1-cos \theta) \approx l\theta^2

v 2 y ˙ 2 2 l θ θ ˙ v_2\approx\dot y_2 \approx 2l\theta\dot\theta

Kinetic energy:

T = 1 2 m v 1 2 + 1 2 M v 2 2 = 1 2 m l 2 θ ˙ 2 + 2 M l 2 θ 2 θ ˙ 2 T=\frac{1}{2}mv_1^2 + \frac{1}{2}Mv_2^2 =\frac{1}{2}ml^2\dot\theta^2+2Ml^2\theta^2\dot\theta^2

Potetial energy:

V = m g y 1 + M g y 2 = 1 2 m g l θ 2 + M g l θ 2 V=m g y_1+M g y_2 = \frac{1}{2}m g l\theta^2 + M g l\theta^2

Langrange L=T-V and the equation of motion is:

d d t ( L θ ˙ ) = L θ \frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot\theta}\right)=\frac{\partial L}{\partial\theta}

m l θ ¨ + 4 M l θ 2 θ ¨ + 8 M l θ θ ¨ = ( m + 2 M ) g θ ml\ddot\theta + 4Ml\theta^2\ddot\theta+8Ml\theta\ddot\theta=-(m+2M)g\theta

For small angles θ \theta , θ 3 \theta^3 will be negligible, leading to:

θ ¨ = ( m + 2 M ) m g l θ \ddot\theta =-\frac{(m+2M)}{m}\frac{g}{l}\theta

T = ( m + 2 M ) m T 0 T=\sqrt{\frac{(m+2M)}{m}}T_0

EDIT: Previously, I've made an error and that I've deleted and posted a corrected version. The comment is not deleted, as the author of the problem replied with an advice (thank you).

Darko Simonovic - 3 years, 9 months ago

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I agree that in the Lagrangian formulation the vertical motion of the lower ball cannot be totally neglected, because that contributes to the potential energy. Nevertheless, I think that the kinetic energy, the \Theta^2 * (dot \Theta)^2 term, is still very small, and it can be neglected. (That term corresponds to the acceleration in the Newtonian formulation.) With this approximation the Lagrangian and Newtonian formulation yield the same result, 0.20.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 9 months ago
Arjen Vreugdenhil
Aug 28, 2017

Relevant wiki: Pendulums

For a simple pendulum, expressions for the energy yield (with sin θ ˙ θ ˙ , cos θ 1 1 2 θ 2 \sin \dot\theta \approx \dot\theta,\cos\theta \approx 1 - \tfrac12\theta^2 ): K 1 2 m 2 θ ˙ 2 ; U 1 2 m g θ 2 . K \approx \tfrac12 m\ell^2{\dot\theta}^2;\ \ \ \ \ U \approx -\tfrac12 m g \ell\theta^2. Generally, if K 1 2 M x ˙ 2 K \approx \tfrac12M{\dot x}^2 and U 1 2 C x 2 U \approx \tfrac12Cx^2 , then the period of oscillation is T = 2 π M / C T = 2\pi\sqrt{M/C} . For the simple pendulum we get M = m 2 M = m\ell^2 and C = m g C = mg\ell , making T = 2 π / g T = 2\pi\sqrt{\ell/g} .

In this case, we have K = K 1 + K 2 = 1 2 m 2 θ ˙ 1 2 + 1 2 ( 12 m ) 2 ( θ ˙ 1 + θ ˙ 2 ) 2 , U = U 1 + U 2 = 1 2 m g θ 1 2 1 2 ( 12 m ) ( θ 1 2 + θ 2 2 ) . K = K_1 + K_2 = \tfrac12 m \ell^2{\dot\theta_1}^2 + \tfrac12 (12m) \ell^2 (\dot\theta_1 + \dot\theta_2)^2, \\U = U_1 + U_2 = -\tfrac12 m g \ell \theta_1^2 - \tfrac12 (12m)\ell(\theta_1^2 + \theta_2^2). Since "the large mass hardly moves", we must have θ 1 + θ 2 = 0 \theta_1 + \theta_2 = 0 , or θ 1 = θ 2 = θ \theta_1 = -\theta_2 = \theta , and the equations reduce to K = 1 2 m 2 θ ˙ 2 U = 1 2 ( 25 m ) g θ 2 . K = \tfrac12 m \ell^2{\dot\theta}^2\ \ \ \ U = -\tfrac12 (25 m) g \ell\theta^2. Thus M = m 2 M = m \ell^2 and C = 25 m g C = 25 m g \ell , making T = 2 π / 25 g T' = 2\pi\sqrt{\ell/25 g} .

Obviously, T / T = 1 / 25 = 1 / 5 = 0.20 T'/T = \sqrt{1/25} = 1/5 = \boxed{0.20} .

Thanks, this is an excellent solution.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 9 months ago

The normal mode of oscillation for this system which makes the large mass "almost stationary" does have a degree of movement for the larger mass, and the period of oscillation is a tad smaller than 0.2 T 0.2T . There is no solution of the linearised Lagrange equations with θ 1 + θ 2 \theta_1+\theta_2 identically equal to 0 0 .

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 9 months ago

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That is, I believe, why the problem states that the mass will "initially" hardly move; this is no normal mode, and therefore not a steady state. However, my approach is valid as a local approximation, and I believe that is what the problem required.

Arjen Vreugdenhil - 3 years, 9 months ago

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No, there are two normal modes. See my proof. One has the two masses swinging in sync, and the second has them swinging in opposite directions, so that the amplitude of the large mass's oscillation is 1 / 20 1/20 that of the small mass. This is what must be meant by the large mass hardly moving.

You are probably right that Laszlo was looking for a solution like yours. You and he make the same approximations, and obtain the same answer. Both of you assume that this special motion is possible, without proving that it exists. Moreover, the actual period T T' is a bit less than 0.2 T 0.2T .

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 9 months ago

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@Mark Hennings Mark, I agree with you, see comment above.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 9 months ago
Ed Sirett
Aug 31, 2017

I have a simple, nearly no calculation solution: The original has period (root reciprocal of angular acc.) of T. This is with Length, l l ; gravity, g g ; and mass, m m ; and tension m g mg . With the large weight added the lengths are the same, gravity the same, and the mass is the same, the only things changes is the tension in the strings, namely 12mg and (12+1)mg = 25 mg. So the with the tension x25 the angular acc is x25. So the period is 0.2 \boxed{0.2} T .

isn't the period supposed to be sqrt(l/g) instead of sqrt(g/l) ?

Thanks, it has now been corrected.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 9 months ago

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