On the Cartesian plane, is it possible to place an uncountable number of figure 8's (two circles that are externally tangential) that do not intersect each other?
Note: An infinite set is
uncountable
if there exists no bijection to the integers.
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@Sharky Kesa What's with the figure 8? Daniel Liu asked the same question.
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Well, figure- 8 s are more interesting than circles (we can have an uncountably infinite disjoint number of these); they have measure zero, but are complex enough for it only to be possible to have a countable number of disjoint ones...
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we can have an uncountably infinite disjoint number of these
Really, that's interesting. How so?
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@Agnishom Chattopadhyay – Centre ( 0 , 0 ) , radius r for all r > 0 .
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@Mark Hennings – Okay, I did not think this through
Is there a subset of R 2 which has positive Lebesgue measure, and yet, uncountably many isomorphic, but non-intersecting copies of it exist?
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No. If the shape has positive measure, then any bounded subset, such as [ − N , N ] × [ − N , N ] , of R can only contain finitely many (if they all have the same measure) or countably many (if they can be scaled in size). To see this last, there can only be finitely many with measure greater than n − 1 for any integer n . Now take the union of these over n .
Thus there can only be countably many in the whole of R 2 .
Where it gets interesting is with shapes of measure zero, like the figure- 8 .
Simply out of curiosity, is there any way to do this without implicitly invoking the axiom of choice. Any finitely-large circle is going to have an infinite number of choices for q 1 , and I cannot deduce any simple rule that could easily select a rational number given an arbitrary circle. Would it be possible to set up a version of this proof that holds without invoking the axiom of choice?
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I shouldn't think so. The standard proof that you cannot have uncountably many disjoint open disks works by the same method (of choosing a point with rational coordinates inside each disk), and therefore also requires the axiom of choice.
Is Q^2 x Q^2 countable? I guess so since your answer doesn't make sense if it isn't, but I realized while considering this that I didn't understand the diagonal slash properly.
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Any Cartesian product of countable sets is countable. If f : A → N and g : B → N are injective, so is h : A × B → N given by h ( a , b ) = 2 f ( a ) 3 g ( b )
Just a doubt....since the cartesian plane extends infinitely cant we place infinite figures of 8 that do not intersect....?
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There are many solutions to be found for this one. The easiest I know of is this...
Each loop of a figure- 8 is open, and so must contain a point with rational coordinates.
If we have a collection S of disjoint figure- 8 s, we can define a map f : S → Q 2 × Q 2 , where f ( E ) = ( q 1 , q 2 ) , where q 1 is a point with rational coordinates inside one loop, and q 2 is a point with rational coordinates inside the other loop of the figure- 8 E .
Suppose that E 1 , E 2 ∈ S are distinct and such that f ( E 1 ) = f ( E 2 ) = ( q 1 , q 2 ) . Since E 1 and E 2 are disjoint, the loop of E 2 that contains q 1 is either totally inside the loop of E 1 that contains q 1 , or else contains the whole of E 1 . Similarly, the loop of E 2 that contains q 2 is either totally inside the loop of E 2 that contains q 2 , or else contains the whole of E 1 . The only way in which these two loops can be mutually tangent is if they both contain the whole of E 1 . But, in this case, both q 1 and q 2 are inside both loops, which means that E 2 is not a figure- 8 . This is impossible.
Thus we deduce that f is injective, and hence that S is countable.