Up for a swing

When spinning on an office chair, you can increase your angular velocity by pulling your arms and legs in toward the center. Can you likewise go higher on a swingset by pulling your legs up close to your chest?

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12 solutions

Rohit Gupta
Jun 6, 2015

No matter what you do in air the maximum height reached by center will remain same by the conservation of energy.

In case of rotation folding the arms change the moment of inertia which leads to increase in angular velocity to keep the angular momentum same...!!

Not sure that I understand your explanation who enough. There is plenty that I can do in the air on a swing that will make it go higher and it has evening to do with changing my body orientation. I'm not saying that I have a better explanation, but that one didn't make sense to me.

Chris Clayton - 6 years ago

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If you are falling freely under gravity from a very high tower and you neglect the air drag then no matter what you do in air you will keep on falling with the same acceleration that is g downwards.

The motion of center of mass is not affected by the internal forces, it is guided by the external force, but the rotational motion can be changed to a great extent by folding the arms.

You may make the swing go a little higher if you somehow increase tension in the strings of the swings that is by pulling it down strongly, but that will be very small again.

You can change your angular velocity by changing the moment of inertia but angular momentum will depend upon the external torque. But just by folding your body parts you cannot change your mass and the change in momentum will depend upon the external forces .. thus if external forces remains same then the change in velocity of center of mass will remain unaffected by the folds of the body..!!

Rohit Gupta - 6 years ago

Yes, you're right.

Manish Mayank - 5 years, 12 months ago

How about physical motion due to the closing of the arm and legs. This will alter some factor in your consideration. Like: waist move due to leg change which potentially in crease the power ... Etc

Xi Huang - 6 years ago

You forget to mention that that is Utopian Physics. Neglecting air drag, possible resistance of the point in which the swing rotates about among many other factors results in the application of Utopian Physics.

Timothy Vu - 6 years ago
Shisui Uchiha
Jun 9, 2015

w = v/r (w= angular velocity; v= velocity; r=radius) While spinning on office chair, pulling hands up decreases 'r' and therefore increases 'w'. While swinging, when you pull hands to your chest, 'r' doesn't decrease, so 'w' won't decrease.

The question want about pulling your arms in, but was about pulling your legs in which would change r.

Chris Clayton - 6 years ago

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But the center of gravity of the kid's body is above her legs,folding legs doesn't changes the center of gravity(which forms the point of radius on circumference),hence no change in radius.

Mehdia Nadeem - 5 years, 12 months ago

Not a correct explanation. Here angular momentum comes into role rather than the 'w'.

Roshan Kumar - 6 years ago
Tejas Deolasi
Jun 3, 2015

In case of chair , pulling hands closer decreases moment on inertia (I) ,so angular velocity increases.But in case of swing no such decrease in I ocuurs ..so there is no use of pulling legs closer.

Why will the moment of inertia not decrease?

aneesh kejariwal - 6 years ago

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Moment of inertia will change but that will not change the max height of the center of mass..!!

Rohit Gupta - 6 years ago

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But then the angular momentum will change(Iw)...

aneesh kejariwal - 6 years ago

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@Aneesh Kejariwal To talk about whether angular momentum changes or not, you need to first mention about which point or axis you wish to know the same.!!

Rohit Gupta - 6 years ago

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@Rohit Gupta Any. It will change about any of them...

aneesh kejariwal - 6 years ago

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@Aneesh Kejariwal Yes the gravity will change it, as it is coming down or going up, the speed and the angular velocity of the swing is changing (Even if he does'not change his body shape)..!! and angular momentum is also changing

Rohit Gupta - 5 years, 12 months ago

dont know what u people talk about ,moment of inertia this and that,its simple if if u bend ur legs while going backward then u r shifting ur weight frontwards which makes u go with an extra acceleration while coming down and hence ur speed increases and hence u reach a more high place

prajwal kavad - 6 years ago

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That means you don't need any person pushing you to continue the swinging motion and you can maintain your swing as long as you desire once you are put in motion (and you wont touch the ground either)

Rohit Gupta - 6 years ago

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ya exactly,ive done it practically

prajwal kavad - 5 years, 11 months ago

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@Prajwal Kavad I thought for a moment that I got it, but then I thought with respect to a pendulum, changing the moment of inertia of the bob about the axis passing through the point it is tied to ( by changing the weight of the bob ) does change the max height the bob reaches, and you also agreed that the moment of inertia will change but apparently the moment wont be conserved in this case.... : / . Still confused.

aneesh kejariwal - 5 years, 11 months ago
Ricky Tan
Jun 10, 2015

If you're on a swing you only have a set amount of energy. For the period of time where you're going upwards and you pull your body in, you aren't gaining any energy and we can ignore however much you lose.

The energy that you have gets converted into gravitational potential energy, =mgh. Your "m" doesn't change and neither does g, so your height is entirely dependent upon how much energy you have. Since your energy isn't changing, your maximum height doesn't change.

The reason why it works on the chair and not the swing is because the chair is isolated from any torques (forces acting rotationally) that will change the angular momentum of the system. Thus, decreasing your moment of inertia by pulling your arms in causes an increase in your angular velocity to conserve angular momentum. On the swing, your have many torques acting to alter your angular momentum, whether it's air resistance or gravity.

Think about it. If you're going down the swing you're rotating one way and then when you swing backwards you're rotating the other way. Angular momentum is definitely not being conserved and so bringing your legs in isn't guaranteed to have the same effect.

Thanks for reading!

I thought for a moment that I got it, but then I thought with respect to a pendulum, changing the moment of inertia of the bob about the axis passing through the point it is tied to ( by changing the weight of the bob ) does change the max height the bob reaches. Thanks for reading.

aneesh kejariwal - 5 years, 11 months ago
Abhishek Dass
Jun 10, 2015

Here, a person pushes you everytime you come down. So there is an external torque acting and hence the angular momentum is not conserved.

Sukrut Waghmare
Jun 8, 2015

Just in case someone comes up with the reason that for increasing max height linear velocity must increase and for using conservation of linear momentum mass must change which in this case does not the answer must be no. But let me tell you that this reason is wrong as external force on the system is not zero as force of gravity acts on the system.

Md Zuhair
Aug 18, 2016

Simply Angular Momentum is conserved in the previous case. But now the angular momentum is n o t c o n s e r v e d \boxed {not conserved}

Lu Chee Ket
Dec 2, 2015

Think as a pendulum. When the center of mass moved to less length, period decreased and frequency of swing increased. Increase of amplitude of swing requires impulse applied onto direction of motion. There is no change of momentum in the direction of motion which is the direction of swing. Only forces or impulses interact in its perpendicular direction. Therefore, there is no change of amplitude of swing.

When we swing on a swingset, we are able to increase the amplitude of swing as we draw some weight component or apply impulse to direction of swing instead, by body motion with skill. If we see a swing motion like a pendulum to be a cone space circular motion at its base, we can imagine and visualize how the frequency can be constant as a projected component of it being seen for a pendulum.

Answer: N o \boxed{No}

Joshy Joseph
Jun 12, 2015

Taking the swingset as a pendulum, pulling the legs up decreases the length of the pendulum which has nothing to do with the amplitude of the motion.

Lew Sterling Jr
Jun 11, 2015

simple explanation to this problem : the axis of rotation is diff. in both the cases to decrease the m.i for office chair, we reduce leg length and for reducing m.i for swing we have to reduce the string length , changing leg orientation will NOT alter m.i of swing ..

Shashank Gupta
Jun 10, 2015

In case of chair's motion Angular Momentum is conserved so at any time angular momentum is conserved. By pulling legs in the moment of inertia decreases, so to balance it off angular velocity increases. But this is valid only if there is no external torque acting on the system. But in case of swing there is an external torque so angular momentum is not conserved. So pulling legs in won't help.

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