Very Small Physics 2

Hydrogen is the simplest atom, with only one proton and one electron interacting with a Coulomb potential of U = e 2 4 π ε 0 r . U = -\frac{e^2}{4 \pi \varepsilon_0 r}. If the electron were a classical charged particle, its orbit around the nucleus would decay until it came to rest at the nucleus. Since the electron is a quantum object, this doesn't happen. One way to estimate the minimum radius allowed for a quantum electron is by saturating the Heisenberg bound, which puts a lower limit on the radius of the electron's orbit r r and its momentum p p : r p Δ x Δ p . r p \approx \Delta x \Delta p \approx \hbar. Treat the hydrogen atom as a two-body problem where the mass of the proton m p m_p is much greater than that of the electron m e . m_e.

Estimate the minimum radius of the electron orbit r min . r_\text{min}.


Details : e e is the charge of an electron, ε 0 \varepsilon_0 is the permittivity of free space, and \hbar is the reduced Planck's constant.

r min = 2 π 2 ε 0 m p e 2 r_\text{min} = \frac{2 \pi \hbar^2 \varepsilon_0}{m_p e^2} r min = 2 2 ε 0 m e e 2 r_\text{min} = \frac{2 \hbar^2 \varepsilon_0}{m_e e^2} r min = 4 π 2 ε 0 m e e 2 r_\text{min} = \frac{4 \pi \hbar^2 \varepsilon_0}{m_e e^2}

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4 solutions

Peter Macgregor
Jun 11, 2018

Let's work in the spirit of early quantum mechanics and model the atom by a massive stationary nucleus, with the electron kept in a circular orbit by a central force field and use Heisenberg's uncertainty relation to eliminate the electron's velocity from the formula. Here are the details -

If we differentiate the given potential, we find that the force on the electron is

F = e 2 4 π ε 0 r 2 F=\frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\varepsilon_0 r^{2}}

using Newton's second law we can equate this with mass times (the centripetal) acceleration of the electron to get

e 2 4 π ε 0 r 2 = m v 2 r ( 1 ) \frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\varepsilon_0 r^{2}}=\frac{mv^{2}}{r} \dots(1) where m is the mass of the electron

Now m v 2 = p 2 m mv^{2}=\frac{p^{2}}{m} and invoking Heisenberg ( r p rp\approx \hbar ) allows us to write (1) as

m v 2 ( r ) 2 m mv^{2}\approx\frac{(\frac{\hbar}{r})^{2}}{m}

Substituting this into equation (1) gives

e 2 4 π ε 0 r 2 2 m r 3 \frac{e^{2}}{4\pi\varepsilon_0 r^{2}}\approx\frac{\hbar^{2}}{mr^{3}}

and easy algebra gives us our approximation

r 4 π ε 0 2 m e 2 \boxed{r\approx\frac{4\pi\varepsilon_0 \hbar^{2}}{me^{2}}}

Question from a physics 1 student with rudimentary calculus... Why do we differentiate the charge potential? I thought the derivative of charge was current?

Joe Hall - 2 years, 11 months ago

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Hi Joe.

Yes the time derivative of charge gives the current.

But here we are taking the space derivative of the potential energy. To see why this gives the force remember that

work done = change in energy = force times distance

In this situation the change in energy is a change in the potential energy U so we can write

dU=Fdx

Dividing by dx shows that the force is the space derivative of the potential.

Does this help?

Peter Macgregor - 2 years, 11 months ago

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That makes more sense, thanks!

Joe Hall - 2 years, 11 months ago
Blake Farrow Staff
May 29, 2018

The run down

We need to break down the energy of an electron near a proton into it's kinetic and potential energy terms, and find a minimum. Classically that minimum would be the electron falling all the way into the proton, but quantum mechanics forbids that kind of spatial confinement, so there will hopefully be another minimum radius that the electron will tend to occupy. A classical Coulomb potential, with a minimum at \(r=0\) A classical Coulomb potential, with a minimum at r = 0 r=0

Total energy

The total energy of our electron is the sum of its kinetic energy (bog-standard E k = p 2 2 m E_k = \frac{p^2}{2m} ) and its potential energy, corresponding to the Coulomb potential.

E t o t = p 2 2 m e e 2 4 π ϵ 0 r E_{tot} = \frac{p^2}{2m_e} - \frac{e^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r}

The problem here is that we'd like to minimize this energy with respect to the radius r r , but we can't really be sure what the relationship is between p p and r r . This is where the uncertainty principle comes in.

Uncertainty

This isn't a perfect calculation by any means, but it's a useful approximation. The trick here is to realize that the radius of the electron orbit must at the very least be larger than its minimum spread in position Δ x \Delta x by the uncertainty principle. Similarly, the electron's momentum must be larger than the associated spread in momentum predicted by the principle. We've been instructed to use this approximation:

Δ x Δ p \Delta x \Delta p \geq \hbar

This can provide us with a relationship between r r and p p :

r Δ x p Δ p Δ x r \geq \Delta x \\ p \geq \Delta p \geq \frac{\hbar}{\Delta x}

So at a minimum the uncertainty principle limits the momentum of the electron according to p r p \geq \frac{\hbar}{r} . The momentum could of course be must larger than this value, but to find the ground state (or lowest energy/momentum) we can use this approximation and change the \geq into a = = .

Confinement Energy

The total energy of our electron is now:

E t o t = p 2 2 m e e 2 4 π ϵ 0 r = 2 2 m 2 r 2 e 2 4 π ϵ 0 r \begin{aligned} E_{tot} &= \frac{p^2}{2m_e} - \frac{e^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r} \\ &= \frac{\hbar^2}{2m_2 r^2} - \frac{e^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r} \end{aligned}

We can now see that the kinetic and potential energies are coupled , and both depend on the electron-nucleus separation. This kinetic energy term is often termed a confinement energy , since it makes an energetic barrier stopping an electron from getting too close to the nucleus. The confinement energy approaches positive infinity much faster than the Coulombic energy approaches negative infinity as the radius approaches zero.

The Coulombic potential energy (blue), the confinement energy (red) and the total electron energy (black) The Coulombic potential energy (blue), the confinement energy (red) and the total electron energy (black)

Minimize!

We can minimize this total energy with respect to radius to find the minimum energy:

d E d r = 2 m e r 3 + e 2 4 π ϵ 0 r 2 = 0 2 m e r 3 = e 2 4 π ϵ 0 r 2 r = 4 π ϵ 0 2 m e e 2 \begin{aligned} \frac{dE}{dr} &= \frac{-\hbar^2}{m_e r^3} + \frac{e^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2} = 0\\ \frac{\hbar^2}{m_e r^3} &= \frac{e^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r^2} \\ r &= \frac{4 \pi \epsilon_0 \hbar^2}{m_e e^2} \end{aligned}

We could plug in the fundamental constants and yield an estimate for the radius of Hydrogen: 0.53 A ˚ \SI{0.53}{\angstrom} .

Since the radius of the electron's orbit and its momentum/energy are coupled, we can calculate the energy corresponding to this ground state as well by plugging in the ground state radius:

E t o t = 2 2 m r 2 e 2 4 π ϵ 0 r = m e e 4 2 ( 4 π ϵ 0 ) 2 m 2 e 4 ( 4 π ϵ 0 ) 2 = m e e 4 2 ( 4 π ϵ 0 ) 2 \begin{aligned} E_{tot} &= \frac{\hbar^2}{2m r^2} - \frac{e^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 r} \\ &= \frac{m_e e^4}{2 (4 \pi \hbar \epsilon_0)^2} - \frac{m_2 e^4}{(4 \pi \hbar \epsilon_0)^2} &= - \frac{m_e e^4}{2 (4 \pi \hbar \epsilon_0)^2} \end{aligned}

Plugging in fundamental constants here yields a ground state energy for hydrogen of 13.6 eV \SI{13.6}{\electronvolt} .

Please tell me I'm not the only person who neither understood the question nor the solution.

Stefan van der Waal - 3 years ago

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Hey Stefan-

What was the most confusing part of the question? Would like to make this more approachable if at all possible.

Blake Farrow Staff - 3 years ago

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The part that confused me is that I got the impression this question assumes familiarity with quantum physics, which is something I know little about. I didn't expect an intermediate weekly question to require such knowledge. For example, the solutions mentions the uncertainty principle, which is a term I once heard, but I know nothing about the details.

So as I see it, my confusion didn't appear because the question and the solution themselves are phrased in a confusing way, but because Brilliant occasionally features questions that are aimed at only a subset of all of the Brilliant users.

Stefan van der Waal - 2 years, 12 months ago

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@Stefan van der Waal Thanks for the response, Stefan. I should probably have referred to the uncertainty principle in the same way in the problem and solution -- in the solution I say the uncertainty principle, but in the problem itself I refer to it as the Heisenberg bound, and state the principle's details mathematically. I'll update my solution.

But to your general point, indeed we do try to feature problems now and then that cater to a more physics and science-centric user group. I hope you're getting plenty of fun math problems too! I have to say, occasionally the discrete mathematics and number theory that shows up in the intermediate weekly problems seem pretty opaque to me, but others definitely seem to enjoy them.

Blake Farrow Staff - 2 years, 12 months ago

You most certainly were not! Intermediate - I don't think so.

Michael Jarvis - 2 years, 12 months ago

Well explained.

sol vixx - 2 years, 12 months ago

The way i solved it may sound funny but I just took 3 answers A, B, and C then checked for similarities which i found between A and C so I know these 2 are made as main choice to confuse person after second scan I found similarities in B and C answers which must be placed for the time when someone goes from particular angle to solve this and will have to choose between one of them so all answers spins around answer C which gave me obvious signs that likely this is the answer :D haha sounds stupid and took me 15 seconds to choose answer. Strategies from school :D

arminas sirvinskas - 2 years, 12 months ago

511,000 eV is the rest mass of your electron. It remains that mass even if it gets excited and jumps to the next quantum state. It remains .511 MeV. If it falls back to its original quanta it will emit a photon of specific energy, this conserving mass. What is this message board? Everyone is overthinking this topic. Bottom line is electron orbit does not decay in the Newtonian sense, but it always conserves energy by emitting a photon of certain energy when calms down. You can repeat this over and over in a laboratory. Why all the fancy equations? You nerds?

Brian Sprague - 2 years, 12 months ago

Why is the minimum value of r = ∆x?

Fazil Babu - 2 years, 12 months ago
Alex Mandelias
Jun 12, 2018

I don't know much about atoms, electrons, the Heisenberg bound and all the stuff that this question has to do with, so I had to guess. Here's my thought process:

1) The correct answer must:

a) Be reasonable. For example saying that a car has an acceleration of 2000 m s 2 \frac {m}{s^2} cannot by any means be a correct solution to a problem.

b) Look the most like all the others.

2) Looking at the answers we can see that both B and C contain m e m_e in their denominator whereas A has m p m_p . Therefore we can quite safely conclude that A might not be the correct answer.

3) Now we have to choose between B and C. We can observe that B has "2" while C has "4 π \pi " in the numerator. Also we notice that the shape of the Hydrogen atom is circular so we can deduce that π \pi might be included in the equation somehow.

Therefore, from options B and C we choose C \boxed{C} which contains " π \pi ". And voila. This method of course is not 100% accurate and should only be used as a last resort whenever we face a problem which we cannot solve.

By the same coin, answer choices A and C both contained pi...so this method assumed equilibrium and could not be used to deduce the correct answer. Even probabilistically, you had a .33 shot at getting the right answer.

Marc Moncada - 2 years, 12 months ago

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Essentially the problem involves the volume of a sphere, and choice C is the only one which includes the expression (4pi), so the shortcut isn't so bad.

Roberto Santiago - 2 years, 12 months ago

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The '4 pi' did it for me. I don't understand the rest :)

Koen B - 2 years, 12 months ago

Yeah, but notice that I also took into account the m e m_e part that appears only in B and C. So if 4 π \pi appears at A and C and m e m_e appears in B and C then C is more likely to be the correct answer

Alex Mandelias - 2 years, 12 months ago

You just discovered the Bohr radius which is the maximum probability of finding an electron about the proton. Not enough information was given to actually solve this problem the way it was stated. The Classical Physics approach would give the orbit (trajectory) of the electron, which would be consistent with the Uncertainty Principle since r(max, Quantum Mechanics) = r(orbit, Classical Physics).

Shannon Lieb - 2 years, 12 months ago

Funny, my reasoning was the same, even though I deduced that since the term e^2 didn't change, 4pi would also remain and therefore it would be solution C. While correct, I don't consider this a successful resolution of the problem. More a survival strategy... :-)

Berthold Hamburger - 2 years, 11 months ago
한얼 이
Jun 17, 2018

Yeah, It's Bohr radius

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