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Algebra Level 5

Let x , y x, y and z z be real numbers such that

{ x 2 + 3 x y + 3 y 2 = 25 z 2 + 3 y z + 3 y 2 = 169 x ( 2 x + 3 y z ) = 3 y z . \begin{cases} x^2 + 3xy + 3y^2 & = 25 \\ z^2 + 3yz + 3y^2 & = 169 \\ x( 2x + 3y -z ) & = 3yz. \\ \end{cases}

If x y + y z + x z xy + yz + xz can be expressed as a b a \sqrt{b} , where a a and b b are positive integers, and b b is not divisible by the square of any prime. What is the value of a + b a+b ?


The answer is 43.

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4 solutions

Note that x 2 + 3 x y + 3 y 2 = 25 x^2 + 3xy + 3y^2= 25 x 2 2 ( 3 2 ) × x × 3 y + ( 3 y ) 2 = 25 = 5 2 \implies x^2 - 2 \left ( -\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} \right ) \times x \times \sqrt{3}y + (\sqrt{3}y)^2= 25= 5^2 x 2 2 x ( 3 y ) cos ( 15 0 ) + ( 3 y ) 2 = 25 \implies x^2 - 2 x (\sqrt{3}y) \cos(150^{\circ}) + (\sqrt{3}y)^2= 25 Similarly, z 2 + 3 y z + 3 y 2 = 169 z^2 + 3yz + 3y^2= 169 z 2 2 z ( 3 y ) cos ( 15 0 ) + ( 3 y ) 2 = 169 = 1 3 2 \implies z^2 - 2 z (\sqrt{3}y) \cos(150^{\circ}) + (\sqrt{3}y)^2= 169= 13^2 From the third equation, we obtain 2 x 2 + 3 x y x z = 3 y z 2x^2 + 3xy - xz = 3yz From the first two equations, we know that 3 x y = 25 3 y 2 x 2 3xy= 25 - 3y^2 - x^2 3 y z = 169 3 y 2 z 2 3yz= 169 - 3y^2 - z^2 Plugging them in the third equation, we obtain 2 x 2 + 25 3 y 2 x 2 x z = 169 3 y 2 z 2 2x^2 + 25 - 3y^2 - x^2 - xz= 169 - 3y^2 - z^2 x 2 x z + z 2 = 144 \implies x^2 - xz + z^2 = 144 x 2 2 × 1 2 x z + z 2 = 144 \implies x^2 - 2 \times \frac{1}{2} xz + z^2= 144 x 2 2 x z cos ( 6 0 ) + z 2 = 144 = 1 2 2 \implies x^2 - 2xz \cos(60^{\circ}) + z^2= 144= 12^2 Now consider the triangle in the following figure.
Go here in case the image doesn't load: http://s24.postimg.org/jp6t8ehph/Untitled.png Go here in case the image doesn't load: http://s24.postimg.org/jp6t8ehph/Untitled.png
Notice that the angles and lengths are consistent from the cosine rule and our first three observations.

Since 1 2 2 + 5 2 = 1 3 2 12^2+5^2= 13^2 , we deduce that A B C = 9 0 \angle ABC= 90^{\circ} . Let P P be the point in the interior. We have [ A P B ] = 3 2 x y [\triangle APB]= \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} xy [ A P C ] = 3 2 y z [\triangle APC]= \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}yz [ B P C ] = 3 2 z x [\triangle BPC]= \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}zx [ A B C ] = 12 × 5 = 60 [\triangle ABC]= 12 \times 5 = 60 Note that [ A P B ] + [ B P C + [ A P C ] = [ A B C ] [\triangle APB] + [\triangle BPC + [\triangle APC] = [\triangle ABC] 3 2 ( x y + y z + z x ) = 60 \implies \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} (xy+yz+zx)= 60 x y + y z + z x = 60 × 2 3 = 40 3 \implies xy+yz+zx= \frac{60 \times 2}{\sqrt{3}}= 40\sqrt{3} Thus, a = 40 a= 40 , b = 3 b=3 , a + b = 40 + 3 = 43 a+b= 40+3= \boxed{43} .

Thank you for your solution! :) Really appreciate your diagram as it has helped me visualised much better. But I would have understood your solution better with motivations :) Voted up!

Jackal Jim - 7 years, 6 months ago

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Okay :) Here's what went on my mind step-by-step:

  • The third equation looks different from the first two. Somehow, we have to make it look a bit nicer. Substituting the values of x y xy and y z yz from the first two equations was my first approach.

  • Once I did it, I found out that the numbers on the RHS form a pythagorean triplet. This led me to think that it must be related somehow to a right-angled triangle.

  • Now that all the equations were in nice form, and I knew it must be related to a triangle, I tried to play with the 3 x y , 3 y z , z x 3xy, 3yz, zx terms a bit. As I expected, I found it very similar to the cosine rule, so I thought of a geometric interpretation.

  • I now had the figure drawn, and had to find x y + y z + z x xy+yz+zx somehow. At this point, I thought of trying a coordinate bash to determine the position of P P . It usually works in the case of right angled triangles, as the coordinates are easier to deal with. However, it got too tedious so I left it.

  • I was clueless for a while. But then, I noticed that if we compute the areas of A P B \triangle APB , A P C \triangle APC , and B P C \triangle BPC , we get the same coefficients of x y , y z xy, yz , and z x zx . That was my stroke of luck! Adding them, I found out the value of x y + y z + z x xy+yz+zx .

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

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Alrighty, thank you! :D

Jackal Jim - 7 years, 6 months ago

Hey,how did u inserted the image dude..?

Kishan k - 7 years, 6 months ago

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The code for inserting an image is ![Alternate text](Image URL) . Write the text which you want to appear if the image doesn't load in the third brackets, and copy-paste the image URL in the first brackets.

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

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how did u made the image?Ms-Paint?

Kishan k - 7 years, 6 months ago

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@Kishan K Yes!

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

A couple of minor misprints in the end: 2 [ A P B ] = 3 y x × sin ( 15 0 ) = 3 2 x y 2[\triangle APB]= \sqrt{3}yx \times \sin(150^{\circ})= \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}xy 2 [ A P C ] = 3 y z × sin ( 15 0 ) = 3 2 y z 2[\triangle APC]= \sqrt{3}yz \times \sin(150^{\circ})= \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}yz 2 [ B P C ] = z x × sin ( 6 0 ) = 3 2 z x 2[\triangle BPC]= zx \times \sin(60^{\circ})= \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}zx 2 [ A B C ] = 12 × 5 = 60 2[\triangle ABC]= 12 \times 5= 60

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

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Also, I don't see y y labeled in the triangle.

Zi Song Yeoh - 7 years, 6 months ago

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Oops, I replaced the 3 y \sqrt{3}y with 3 b \sqrt{3}b . Sorry.

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

And, shouldn't the right hand side of the second line be 3 2 y z \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}yz ?

Shendy Marcello Yuniar - 7 years, 6 months ago

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Yes, corrected. Thanks! :)

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

Hahahahaha the birth of a triangle. Another algebra question with a geometry solution. I hate those questions hahaha

Rindell Mabunga - 7 years, 6 months ago

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I love these problems!

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

And there goes the triangles in all of the solutions hahaha

Rindell Mabunga - 7 years, 6 months ago

I have been solving this for days but I never went to the right answer.. Never thought again of using geometry to answer the question.. Are there any pure algebraic solutions for this or even manipulating variables?

John Ashley Capellan - 7 years, 6 months ago

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There might exist such a solution, but I believe if we go along that line, we will basically reprove the formula for the area of a triangle ( [ A B C ] = 1 2 A B . B C . sin ( A B C ) ) \left ( [\triangle ABC]= \frac{1}{2} AB.BC.\sin(\angle ABC) \right ) , which will be too long. Another problem with these solutions is that we have to justify the existence of such a x , y , z x, y, z , otherwise we might get paradoxes such as this one. Note that finding x , y , z x, y, z is as hard as using a coordinate bash to determine the position of P P , which is really intimidating (I have tried it!). If we go along the geometric line, it is obvious that there must exist such a point P P in the plane (maybe not in the interior of A B C \triangle ABC ), so we are guaranteed to find a ( x , y , z ) (x,y,z) satisfying all three equations.

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago
Kishan K
Nov 25, 2013

Motivation :Firstly,one must notice that the given values, 25 25 and 169 169 are perfect squares of 5 5 and 13 13 ,and they also form a pythagorean triplet with 12 12 ,so one must think of using geometry to solve this problem.The idea will become more clear by reading my solution.

Firstly,as we are using geometry in this problem,we must use some concepts of geometry like similarity,cosine rule,sine rule etc.The another hardest part of this problem is to identify that concept which we have to apply in this problem.Let's see what is given!Also notice that the given information contains a lots of squares( x 2 , z 2 , 25 , 169 x^{2},z^{2},25,169 ),and cosine rule is the only one which contains many squares.So,by simple hit and trial and observations,the given data can be rewritten as, ( 5 ) 2 = x 2 + ( y 3 ) 2 2 ( 3 2 ) ( x ) ( y 3 ) (5)^{2}=x^{2} +(y\sqrt{3})^{2} -2(\frac{-\sqrt{3}}{2})(x)(y\sqrt{3})

( 13 ) 2 = z 2 + ( y 3 ) 2 2 ( 3 2 ) ( z ) ( y 3 ) (13)^{2} = z^{2} +(y\sqrt{3})^{2} -2(\frac{-\sqrt{3}}{2})(z)(y\sqrt{3}) and by subtracting these two equations and using the third given equation,we get ( 12 ) 2 = x 2 + z 2 2 ( 3 2 ) ( x ) ( z ) (12)^{2}=x^{2} + z^{2} - 2(\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2})(x)(z) The above 3 equations looks like cosine rule,so the above three equations,we need to arrange them such that these equations are geometrically related. So,it can be arranged by setting a point inside the triangle. For final diagram,download this file and if you don't have geogebra, google it and download it.Sorry,because I feel lazy to type,so please download the file.

From the diagram,the problem is converted into a geometry problem which is very simple to solve. The area of the 3 smaller triangles equal to the area of the bigger triangle.So, ( 1 2 × sin 150 × y 3 × x ) + ( 1 2 × sin 150 × z × x ) + ( 1 2 × sin 60 × y 3 × z ) = 1 2 × 5 × 12 (\frac{1}{2} \times \sin\ 150 \times y\sqrt{3} \times x) + (\frac{1}{2} \times \sin\ 150 \times z \times x) + (\frac{1}{2} \times \sin\ 60 \times y\sqrt{3} \times z) = \frac{1}{2} \times 5 \times 12 Simplifying the above equation we get our answer. x y + y z + z x = 40 3 xy+yz+zx = \boxed{40\sqrt{3}}

Nice solution! :) Although I don't bother downloading Geogebra, but I like your motivation part. :) It really helped me understand the solution more. Voted up!

Jackal Jim - 7 years, 6 months ago
Jon Haussmann
Nov 25, 2013

Subtracting the first equation from the second equation, we get z 2 x 2 + 3 y z 3 x y = 144. z^2 - x^2 + 3yz - 3xy = 144. From the third equation, 3 y z 3 x y = 2 x 2 x z 3yz - 3xy = 2x^2 - xz . Substituting, we get x 2 x z + z 2 = 144. x^2 - xz + z^2 = 144.

Let A A , B B , C C , and P P be points such that A P = x AP = x , B P = y 3 BP = y \sqrt{3} , C P = z CP = z , A P B = B P C = 15 0 \angle APB = \angle BPC = 150^\circ , and A P C = 6 0 \angle APC = 60^\circ . Then by the cosine law on triangle A B P ABP ,

A B 2 = x 2 2 x ( y 3 ) cos 15 0 + ( y 3 ) 2 = x 2 + 3 x y + 3 y 2 = 25 , \begin{aligned} AB^2 &= x^2 - 2x(y \sqrt{3}) \cos 150^\circ + (y \sqrt{3})^2 \\ &= x^2 + 3xy + 3y^2 \\ &= 25, \end{aligned}

so A B = 5 AB = 5 . Similarly, by the cosine law on triangle B C P BCP , B C 2 = 3 y 2 + 3 y z + z 2 = 169 , BC^2 = 3y^2 + 3yz + z^2 = 169, so B C = 13 BC = 13 , and by the cosine law on triangle A C P ACP , A C 2 = x 2 x z + z 2 = 144 , AC^2 = x^2 - xz + z^2 = 144, so A C = 12 AC = 12 .

Since A B 2 + A C 2 = B C 2 AB^2 + AC^2 = BC^2 , triangle A B C ABC is a right-triangle, and has area 1 2 A B A C = 1 2 5 12 = 30. \frac{1}{2} \cdot AB \cdot AC = \frac{1}{2} \cdot 5 \cdot 12 = 30.

The area of triangle A B P ABP is 1 2 A P B P sin 15 0 = 1 2 x y 3 1 2 = 3 4 x y . \frac{1}{2} \cdot AP \cdot BP \cdot \sin 150^\circ = \frac{1}{2} \cdot x \cdot y \sqrt{3} \cdot \frac{1}{2} = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4} xy. Similarly, the areas of triangles A C P ACP and B C P BCP are 3 4 x z \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4} xz and 3 4 y z \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4} yz , respectively. Adding these areas up, we get 3 4 x y + 3 4 x z + 3 4 y z = 30 , \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4} xy + \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4} xz + \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4} yz = 30, so x y + x z + y z = 120 3 = 40 3 . xy + xz + yz = \frac{120}{\sqrt{3}} = 40 \sqrt{3}.

Although this was probably the intended solution, the given system does not actually have any solutions where x x , y y , and z z are all positive. If it did, then our construction would give us a triangle A B C ABC with sides 5, 12, and 13, and a point P P inside the triangle such that A P C = 6 0 \angle APC = 60^\circ . But cos A B C = 5 13 < 1 2 = cos 6 0 , \cos \angle ABC = \frac{5}{13} < \frac{1}{2} = \cos 60^\circ, so A B C > 6 0 \angle ABC > 60^\circ , which means that no such point P P exists.

Wouldn't x , y , z x, y, z being negative simply mean P P lies outside A B C \triangle ABC ? Since we are considering directed segments, the area would add up anyways. However, in that case, I admit my diagram was wrong. :)

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

You can use a point outside triangle A B C ABC , but it requires some care. Let P P be the point such that A P B = C P B = 3 0 \angle APB = \angle CPB = 30^\circ . (Note that 3 0 = 18 0 15 0 30^\circ = 180^\circ - 150^\circ .)

https://i.imgur.com/lcFRPF6.png

Then A P C = 6 0 \angle APC = 60^\circ . If we take x = A P x = AP , y = B P / 3 y = -BP/\sqrt{3} , and z = C P z = CP , then these values satisfy the given system. Looking at the diagram, you can convice yourself why taking y y to be negative works.

They have changed the problem so that x x , y y , and z z can be any real numbers, but the problem still isn't quite right. It turns out that there is another point P P that leads to a solution, namely the point P P where A P B = 3 0 \angle APB = 30^\circ and A P C = 12 0 \angle APC = 120^\circ .

https://i.imgur.com/btywCAU.png

Then B P C = 15 0 \angle BPC = 150^\circ . If we take x = A P x = -AP , y = B P / 3 y = BP/\sqrt{3} , and z = C P z = CP , then these values satisfy the given system. These values lead to x y + x z + y z = 40 3 xy + xz + yz = -40 \sqrt{3} , which is negative.

Jon Haussmann - 7 years, 6 months ago

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Aren't they asking for the positive value of x y + y z + z x xy+yz+zx (as they say x y + y z + z x xy+yz+zx can be represented as a b a\sqrt{b} for some a , b N a,b \in \mathbb{N} )? Note that WolframAlpha gives the following solutions: x y z x y + y z + z x 60 73 + 20 3 4129 5 3 ( 12 + 5 3 ) 73 + 20 3 4129 12 ( 4 3 5 ) 73 + 20 3 4129 40 3 60 73 + 20 3 4129 5 3 ( 12 + 5 3 ) 73 + 20 3 4129 12 ( 5 4 3 ) 73 + 20 3 4129 40 3 60 73 20 3 4129 5 3 ( 12 5 3 ) 73 20 3 4129 12 ( 5 + 4 3 ) 73 20 3 4129 40 3 60 73 20 3 4129 5 3 ( 5 3 12 ) 73 20 3 4129 12 ( 5 + 4 3 ) 73 20 3 4129 40 3 \begin{array}{c|c|c|c} x & y & z & xy+yz+zx \\ \hline -60\sqrt{\frac{73+20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & \frac{5}{3}(12+5\sqrt{3})\sqrt{\frac{73+20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & 12(4\sqrt{3}-5)\sqrt{\frac{73+20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & -40\sqrt{3} \\ \hline 60\sqrt{\frac{73+20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & -\frac{5}{3}(12+5\sqrt{3})\sqrt{\frac{73+20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & 12(5-4\sqrt{3})\sqrt{\frac{73+20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & -40\sqrt{3} \\ \hline -60\sqrt{\frac{73-20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & \frac{5}{3}(12-5\sqrt{3})\sqrt{\frac{73-20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & -12(5+4\sqrt{3})\sqrt{\frac{73-20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & 40\sqrt{3} \\ \hline 60\sqrt{\frac{73-20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & \frac{5}{3}(5\sqrt{3}-12)\sqrt{\frac{73-20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & 12(5+4\sqrt{3})\sqrt{\frac{73-20\sqrt{3}}{4129}} & 40\sqrt{3} \\ \hline \end{array} This shows that the possible values of x y + y z + z x xy+yz+zx are indeed ± 40 3 \pm 40\sqrt{3} . The negative value gets rejected because of the problem conditions. But I have to admit: my solution was terribly incomplete! Thanks for pointing that out. :)

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

Let 3 y 2 = t 2 3y^2=t^2 . Then we have from the first equation, 5 2 = x 2 + t 2 + 3 x t = x 2 + t 2 2 x t cos 15 0 5^2 = x^2 + t^2 + \sqrt{3}xt = x^2 + t^2 - 2xt \cos{150^{\circ}} .

Similarly from second equation, we get 1 3 2 = z 2 + t 2 + 3 z t = z 2 + t 2 2 z t cos 15 0 13^2 = z^2 + t^2 + \sqrt{3}zt = z^2 + t^2 - 2zt \cos{150^{\circ}} .

Substituting the values of z t zt & x t xt from the first two equations into the third, we get:

1 3 2 z 2 t 2 = 2 x 2 + 5 2 x 2 t 2 x z 1 2 2 = x 2 + z 2 x z 1 2 2 = x 2 + z 2 2 x z cos 60 13^2 - z^2 - t^2 = 2x^2 +5^2 - x^2 - t^2 - xz \Rightarrow 12^2=x^2+z^2 -xz \Rightarrow 12^2=x^2+z^2 -2xz \cos{60} .

Now consider a right triangle A B C ABC with sides c = 5 , a = 12 , b = 13 c=5,a=12,b=13 . There is a point P P inside such that A P B = 15 0 , A P C = 15 0 , B P C = 6 0 \angle APB = 150^{\circ}, \angle APC = 150^{\circ}, \angle BPC = 60^{\circ} . Applying cosine rule in these smaller triangles gives us the above three equations.

We are asked for x y + y z + z x = x t 3 + z t 3 + z x = 1 3 ( x t + z t + 3 x z ) xy+yz+zx = \frac{xt}{\sqrt{3}} + \frac{zt}{\sqrt{3}} +zx = \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}}(xt + zt + \sqrt{3}xz) , which we get by adding the areas of the above three triangles computed using sine rule. Indeed, we get: 1 2 ( x t 2 + 3 x z 2 + z t 2 ) = 30 \frac{1}{2} (\frac{xt}{2} + \frac{\sqrt{3}xz}{2} + \frac{zt}{2}) = 30 , whence we get the answer 40 3 \boxed{40\sqrt{3}} .

A quick recap:

  • recall the squares 25 25 & 169 169 are part of the pythagorean triplet { 5 , 12 , 13 } \{5,12,13\} . So we can approach using geometric interpretation,especially pertaining to right triangles.

  • since we need squares, & 3 y 2 3y^2 is not a perfect square, remove it! (Of course by substituting something, not punching your monitor :))

  • Since x y + y z + z x xy+yz+zx is asked for, don't go for x , y , z x,y,z directly. Lastly it's just practice & learning, by which you can use such techniques.

A Brilliant Member - 7 years, 6 months ago

You didn't have to make the substitution 3 y 2 = t 2 3y^2=t^2 . The final equation would have been much nicer without it. :)

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 6 months ago

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You should make your math look clean. :) Anyway, no problem.

A Brilliant Member - 7 years, 6 months ago

I actually made this substitution too...and like Paramijit had said, it made the equations look clean and it motivated me to use cosine rule.. :) Anyway very nice explanation!

Xuming Liang - 7 years, 6 months ago

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