Will I see you?

Akshatha and Dev both take half an hour to finish their lunches. Each arrives at the canteen at a random time between 1:00 and 2:00 pm.

Is it more likely that they are both in the canteen at the same time for some amount of time than not?

No, it's more likely they are never there at the same time It's just as likely both are there at the same time as they aren't Yes, it's more likely they are both there at the same time

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9 solutions

David Vreken
Aug 15, 2018

The following graph shows Dev's arrival time on one axis and Akshatha's on another axis, with a green area containing coordinates where both lunchtimes overlap, and red areas containing coordinates where the lunchtimes do not overlap:

Exactly 3 4 \frac{3}{4} of the graph is green, so it is more likely that both are there at the same time .

Really elegant !

Romain Bouchard - 2 years, 9 months ago

Great solution!

Zoe Codrington - 2 years, 9 months ago

The problem states that they can arrive at any time between 1:00 pm to 2:00 pm and that the canteen closes at 2:30 pm. This implies that either Dev or Akshatha could possibly arrive at 1:59 pm, correct?

Aaron Orozco - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Yes, those times are near the right and top edges of the graph.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 9 months ago

Of course!

Zoe Codrington - 2 years, 9 months ago

That was my thought as well. The canteen is open 1,5 hour, from 13.00 - 14.30 (as I read the text... /BR Adam

Adam Forchhammer - 2 years, 9 months ago

That's how it was worded. Confusing.

Andrew Dembofsky - 2 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, the question implies that the period is 1:00 and 2:30 PM. It clearly states: Each arrives at the canteen at a random time between 1:00 and 2:00 pm. That means they can ARRIVE at 2:00 pm, but that still doesn't make the answer wrong :)

Bogdan Florin - 2 years, 9 months ago

Aaron -- It doesn't seem that the problem states that the canteen closes at 2:30; that can only be inferred because if either (or both) of the people arrive at 2 and spend the 1/2 hour for lunch then they will exit the canteen at 2:30. This may be a trivial point -- but I think that we are reading something into the problem that is not there if we assume that the canteen closes at 2:30.

Jesse Otis - 2 years, 9 months ago

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It's really a precaution, but yes, we don't need it.

Zoe Codrington - 2 years, 9 months ago

I am missing something, the question are they most likely to be seen together or not? The most they can be together is half an hour which means 50%. That means if I was to look at a random time between 1 and 2, the best, I would see them together is 50%. So the answer should be less then 50%

Bernard Zimmermann - 2 years, 9 months ago

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The problem doesn't ask about a "random time between 1 and 2" (it should be 2:30), but whether there EXISTS a time when they are together. (vs "not seen together" which would be when there is no such moment when they CAN be seen together)

C . - 2 years, 9 months ago

Wrong. Are they more likely to be seen together than not - by someone entering at a random time and observing the times whether they are both there compared with the times that only one of them is there.

Thus, this question is asking whether they spend more time together in the canteen, or more time alone in the canteen ('than not' together).

For them to spend more time together than not, their entry times need to be within 10 min of each other (which is obviously less than 50%) otherwise they'd each spend more of their 30 min in the canteen not together.

Ben Greenfield - 2 years, 9 months ago

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The question asks whether the two will be at the canteen at the same time or not, not if they spend time together in the canteen together or not.

David Vreken - 2 years, 9 months ago

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I agree with Ben. The question asks ''

Vadim Shkaberda - 2 years, 8 months ago

Brilliant! ;)

Omer Lichtenstein - 2 years, 9 months ago

I like your thinking :)

Tyson Szeto - 2 years, 9 months ago

Your diagram makes it really clear - well done.

Thomas Sutcliffe - 2 years, 9 months ago

Excellent solution. As either party could be lunching until 2:30, I'd favour 5/9?...

.

David Entwistle - 2 years, 9 months ago

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In my diagram, coordinates correspond with arrival times, not lunching times, and so the times are between 1:00 and 2:00, not 2:30. In other words, if Akshatha arrived at 1:15 and Dev arrived at 1:30, the coordinate (1:15, 1:30) is in the green area, meaning Akshatha and Dev would be at lunch at the same time, but if Akshatha arrived at 1:15 and Dev arrived at 1:55, the coordinate (1:15, 1:55) is in the red area, meaning Akshatha and Dev would not be at lunch at the same time.

David Vreken - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Thanks. I see where I went wrong.

David Entwistle - 2 years, 9 months ago

Sir. Could you give me a clearer explanation of your graphing. I still haven't figured out how the red and green area could give the idea of them being seen at the same time or not. Thank you.

tấn phát đặng - 2 years, 9 months ago

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The coordinates correspond with arrival times. For example, if Akshatha arrived at 1:15 and Dev arrived at 1:30, the coordinate (1:15, 1:30) is in the green area, meaning Akshatha and Dev would be at lunch at the same time, but if Akshatha arrived at 1:15 and Dev arrived at 1:55, the coordinate (1:15, 1:55) is in the red area, meaning Akshatha and Dev would not be at lunch at the same time.

David Vreken - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Thanks for your reply. I did read your previous comments and understand quite well how would you use the graph, but what I was trying to ask is the way to come up with those boundary lines between the red and the area. Like, from where to draw them.

tấn phát đặng - 2 years, 9 months ago

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@Tấn Phát Đặng If Akshatha arrives at 1:00, then the boundary time for Dev is 1:30 (if Dev arrives before 1:30 they will be at lunch at the same time, if Dev arrives after 1:30 they won't be at lunch at the same time). If Akshatha arrives at 1:05, the boundary time for Dev is 1:35, if Akshatha arrives at 1:10, the boundary time is 1:40, and so on, and these coordinates follow a boundary line at D = A + 0:30.

We can make the same argument by swapping people. If Dev arrives at 1:00, then the boundary time for Akshatha is 1:30 (if Akshatha arrives before 1:30 they will be at lunch at the same time, if Akshatha arrives after 1:30 they won't be at lunch at the same time). If Dev arrives at 1:05, the boundary time for Akshatha is 1:35, if Dev arrives at 1:10, the boundary time is 1:40, and so on, and these coordinates follow a boundary line at A = D + 0:30, or D = A - 0:30.

David Vreken - 2 years, 9 months ago
Owen Barnes
Aug 28, 2018

The chance of their missing each other is infinitesimally small. The only way they could miss each other is if one of them arrives at 1:00 and leaves at 1:30, and the other arrives at 1:30. ANY other arrival times give overlap.

if the other person arrives any time later than 1:30, they still miss each other, and if the 1st person arrives anytime after 1:30, the 2nd person can arrive 30 minutes before them.

Class ified - 2 years, 9 months ago

I was thinking like you initially where they have to BE THERE between 1pm to 2pm. Was thinking why the top voted answer was wrong when I saw this comment. Then I reread the question and realized they only have to ARRIVE between 1pm to 2pm. I upvoted yours anyway for awareness for blur cocks like me.

Lance Kuanwu - 2 years, 9 months ago

The point is, they don't have to complete their lunch before 2pm. So they can arrive even after 1.30 and that's not a small chance.

Sathwik Nadella - 2 years, 9 months ago

This is wrong. If one person arrives at 1, leaves at 1:30, second person arrives at 2, leaves at 2:30, then there are 30 minutes when neither person is in the canteen. Remember, they ARRIVE between 1 and 2 pm

Vlad Kovalevsky - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Do they leave?

Srinivasan Sundararajan - 2 years, 7 months ago

No.......

Reread the question

Zoe Codrington - 2 years, 9 months ago
Ahmed Amir
Aug 27, 2018

Let s s be the time the first arrival finishes, t t be the time the last arrival comes. Notice that s s lies in [ 1 : 30 , 2 : 30 ] [1:30, 2:30] and t t lies in [ ( s 0 : 30 ) , 2 : 00 ] [(s- 0:30), 2:00] . If s > t s > t they will be there together at some time. Which is clearly more likely to happen according to the intervals s , t s, t lie in.

brilliant on using the first finishes and the second arrival. It means that the only time that they may miss each other is when the second person arrive after 1:30pm. The second person arrive before 1:30pm will 100% meet the first, and, even if the second person arrive after 1:30pm, there are still possible that the second person meet the first person. In short, it is more likely they both meet each other

Tan Keng - 2 years, 9 months ago

You could graph the probability that person 2 sees person 1 as a function of the arrival time of person 1 P ( x ) P(x) . This can be done by thinking about what fraction of the total possible arrival times person 2 could arrive and see person 1. notice that as long as person 2's arrival time is anywhere within 30 minutes of person 1's arrival time, that they will see each other . Using the variable x as person 1's arrival time, in hours, it is easy to see that P ( 1 ) = 0.5 P(1)=0.5 , P ( 1.5 ) = 1 P(1.5)=1 , and P ( 2 ) = 0.5 P(2)=0.5 . Notice that if you change x, d P ( x ) d x \frac{dP(x)}{dx} =(constant) as you could think of Person 2's arrival times that result in them seeing person 1 for some amount of time as being on a bar of length 1 that is centered at the arrival time of person 1, to change the arrival time of person 1 is to change how much of the total arrival time is contained within the bar centered at person 1's arrival time. Logically then, P ( x ) P(x) will increase linearly for x between 1 and 1.5, while it will decrease linearly for x between 1.5 and 2.
Now to solve the problem, take the ratio of the area under the graph of P ( x ) P(x) to the total area of the box that contains all possible probability values and all possible arrival times. You could do two separate integrals (as the function is not differentiable at x =1.5) but it is less time consuming to use geometry. using x in hours, The area under the graph would be 0.75, the total area of the relevant graphing space is 1. and thus the ratio of area under graph to area of graphing space is 3 4 \frac{3}{4} , This fraction represents the overall probability that they end up in the canteen at the same time, for any length of time. and thus it is most likely that they do see each other or are mutually there for some period of time.

Mitchell -- Interesting that you have applied calculus to that (along with probability).

Jesse Otis - 2 years, 9 months ago

Indeed,. Using P ( A ) P(A) as the overall probability of event A occurring and P A ( x ) P_{A}(x) as the probability of A occurring for a given value of x. The formula relating the value of P ( A ) P(A) to the function P A ( x ) P_{A}(x) , where x R [ a , b ] \in \mathbb{R} [a,b] goes as: P ( A ) = a b P A ( x ) d x b a P(A) = \frac{\displaystyle\int_{a}^{b} P_{A}(x) dx}{b-a} which is just the formula giving the mean value of P A ( x ) P_{A}(x) over x in the interval [ a , b ] [a,b] .
That being said, in any continuous situation, provided a knowledge of integral calculus, it's easy to get the overall probability of an event as long as you can define the function P A ( x ) P_{A} (x) for the situation

Mitchell Willemsen - 2 years, 9 months ago
Class Ified
Aug 29, 2018

If someone arrives at 1:01 (the earliest time they can), there is >50% chance of them being there at the same time. The same is true for 1:30. There is exactly 29 minutes from 1:01 - 1:30 and 1:30 - 1:59. For the times between the number, the chances of them being there at the same time is 50%. Therefore, the average chance of them being there at the same time is >50%, meaning that the answer is yes.

But why are you excluding 1:00 and 2:00? If I asked you to pick a random number between 1 and 10, I guess you would assume it's inclusive. Number 1 would be a valid pick

Vlad Kovalevsky - 2 years, 9 months ago

it is still technically not between the 2 numbers, meaning that they cant arrive then

Class ified - 2 years, 9 months ago
Joshua Thomas
Aug 28, 2018

I figure if lunch is over at 2:00 at the latest, it only leaves from 1-1:30 as "random-times-of-arrival", anytime after that renders u late, with 1:00 being the only way to exhaust 30mins without them seeing one another. Every "rtoa" from 1:01 forward is additional time spent with one another.

It doesn't say that lunch time ends at 2:00, simply that they arrive before 2:00, meaning that although your answer was correct, your reasoning wasn't.

Class ified - 2 years, 9 months ago
Kieran Halfpenny
Aug 28, 2018

An hour is divided into 2 half-hours. Anywhere between 7.5 and 52.5 is higlighted, so 45 is divided into the hour equally and takes up 45 mins, which is ¾ an hour, which is more than the remaining fifteen minutes of the hour. ¾ is more than ¼, so it is more likely.

Richard Desper
Aug 31, 2018

Let's name the guys Mutt and Jeff. If Mutt arrives exactly at 1:00, there's a 50-50 chance Jeff arrives within the next half-hour.

If Mutt arrives exactly at 2:00, there's a 50-50 chance Jeff arrived within the previous half-hour.

If Mutt arrives at 1:00 + t + t minutes, with 0 < t < 30 0 < t < 30 , then the probability Jeff arrives either before Mutt or within the half hour after Mutt is t + 30 60 > 1 2 \frac{t + 30}{60} > \frac{1}{2} .

Similarly, if Mutt arrives at 2:00 t - t minutes, with 0 < t < 30 0 < t < 30 , then the probability Jeff arrives either before Mutt or within the half hour after Mutt is t + 30 60 > 1 2 \frac{t + 30}{60} > \frac{1}{2} .

Finally, if Mutt arrrives at exactly 2:30, Jeff arrives within a half-hour of Mutt's arrival with probability 1.

So whenever Mutt arrives, Jeff will arrive within a half-hour with probability at least 1/2. With with a positive probability, this conditional probability will be greater than 1/2. Thus, as we sum (or integrate) over the possible times of Mutt's arrival, we see that the plain probability Jeff will arrive within a half-hour of Mutt is greater than 1/2.

Chris Maitland
Aug 29, 2018

They will meet so long as one arrives within half an hour of the other, either within 30mins before or 30mins after. For all starting times for one person, the other has a window that is longer than or equal to 30 minutes to arrive. This is more than half of the total 1 hour limit.

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