Will that be a small triangle?

Let the three sides of a triangle be integers a , b , c a,b,c respectively, satisfying a > b > c a > b > c and f ( 3 a 1 0 4 ) = f ( 3 b 1 0 4 ) = f ( 3 c 1 0 4 ) f\left (\frac{3^a}{10^4}\right)=f\left (\frac{3^b}{10^4}\right)=f\left(\frac{3^c}{10^4}\right) where f ( x ) = x x f(x)=x-\lfloor x \rfloor . Find the minimum perimeter of such a triangle.


The answer is 3003.

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1 solution

Discussions for this problem are now closed

Ariel Gershon
May 7, 2014

L e m m a : Lemma: Suppose we have two positive integers x , y x,y such that

f ( 3 x 1 0 4 ) = f ( 3 y 1 0 4 ) f \left(\frac{3^x}{10^4}\right) = f \left(\frac{3^y}{10^4}\right) . I say that this implies x y ( m o d . 500 ) x \equiv y (mod . 500) .

P r o o f : Proof: Let m , n m,n be the remainders when 3 x , 3 y 3^x, 3^y are divided by 1 0 4 10^4 respectively. Then we can write 3 x = q 1 1 0 4 + m 3^x = q_1 10^4 + m and 3 y = q 2 1 0 4 + n 3^y = q_2 10^4 + n for some positive integers q 1 , q 2 q_1, q_2 , such that 0 m , n < 1 0 4 0 \le m,n < 10^4 . Therefore,

f ( 3 x 1 0 4 ) = f ( q 1 + m 1 0 4 ) = ( q 1 + m 1 0 4 ) q 1 = m 1 0 4 f \left(\frac{3^x}{10^4}\right) = f \left(q_1 + \frac{m}{10^4}\right) = \left(q_1 + \frac{m}{10^4}\right) - q_1 = \frac{m}{10^4}

Similarly,

f ( 3 y 1 0 4 ) = n 1 0 4 f \left(\frac{3^y}{10^4} \right) = \frac{n}{10^4}

Since those two quantities were assumed to be equal, then we must have m = n m = n . Thus, 3 x 3 y ( m o d . 1 0 4 ) 3^x \equiv 3^y (mod. 10^4) .

Now it remains to find the order of 3 in the group of integers relatively prime to 1 0 4 10^4 . By Euler's Theorem we know that 3 4000 1 ( m o d . 1 0 4 ) 3^{4000} \equiv 1 (mod. 10^4) . With a little experimenting, you can find that 3 500 1 ( m o d . 1 0 4 ) 3^{500} \equiv 1 (mod. 10^4) , but 3 250 6249 ( m o d 1 0 4 3^{250} \equiv 6249 (mod 10^4 and 3 100 2001 ( m o d . 1 0 4 ) 3^{100} \equiv 2001 (mod. 10^4) . Hence, the order of 3 is 500.

Therefore, it must be that x y ( m o d . 500 ) x \equiv y (mod. 500) . \Box

Now back to the problem. By the Lemma, we must have a b c ( m o d . 500 ) a \equiv b \equiv c (mod. 500) . Since a > b > c a > b > c , this means there exist positive integers p , q p, q such that b = c + 500 p b = c + 500p and a = c + 500 ( p + q ) a = c + 500(p+q) .

Also, by the Triangle Inequality, we must have b + c > a b + c > a . Therefore,

( c + 500 p ) + c > c + 500 ( p + q ) (c + 500p) + c > c + 500(p+q)

c > 500 q c > 500q

Now since q q is positive, this means c 501 c \ge 501 . Then b 1001 b \ge 1001 and a 1501 a \ge 1501 .

Hence, a + b + c 3003 a + b + c \ge 3003 .

First I found out that

3 4 = 1 ( m o d 10 ) 3^4 = 1(mod 10)

and

3 4 × 5 = 3 20 = 1 ( m o d 100 ) 3^{4 \times 5} = 3^{20} = 1(mod 100) .

So, I concluded that

3 20 × 5 = 3 100 = 1 ( m o d 1000 ) 3^{20 \times 5} = 3^{100} = 1(mod 1000)

3 100 × 5 = 3 500 = 1 ( m o d 10000 ) 3^{100 \times 5} = 3^{500} = 1(mod 10000)

which I found out is true.

So I got the answers 501 501 , 1001 1001 , and 1501 1501

Is this a special property of powers of 3 3 ?

Thanks.

Rindell Mabunga - 7 years, 1 month ago

Well, unforunately that pattern doesn't continue, since 3 2500 50001 ( m o d 100000 ) 3^{2500} \equiv 50001 \pmod{100000} .

There is a theorem by Euler in number theory, which says that for positive integers a , n a,n , if g c d ( a , n ) = 1 gcd(a,n) = 1 , then a ϕ ( n ) 1 ( m o d n ) a^{\phi (n)} \equiv 1 \pmod{n} . Here, ϕ ( n ) \phi (n) is the number of numbers in the set { 1 , 2 , . . . , n 1 } \{1,2, ... , n-1 \} which are relatively prime to n n .

In this case, we have a = 3 a = 3 and n n a power of 10, so they are relatively prime. It's easy to calculate ϕ ( n ) \phi (n) if you know the prime factorization of n n . As it turns out, ϕ ( 10 ) = 4 \phi (10) = 4 , ϕ ( 100 ) = 40 \phi (100) = 40 , ϕ ( 1000 ) = 400 \phi (1000) = 400 , ϕ ( 10000 ) = 4000 \phi (10000) = 4000 , and so on.

So we have 3 4 1 ( m o d 10 ) 3^4 \equiv 1 \pmod{10} , 3 4000 1 ( m o d 10000 ) 3^{4000} \equiv 1 \pmod{10000} , etc.

Now if our task is to find the smallest power of 3 which gives 1 mod 10000, this theorem would tell us that the smallest power is a factor of 4000 (and similarly if we're looking mod 1 0 k 10^k , the smallest power is a factor of 4 1 0 k 1 4 * 10^{k-1} ). After that, it's pretty much just guess and check, as far as I know.

Ariel Gershon - 7 years, 1 month ago

You have made a mistake somewhere, (1500, 1000, 500) satisfies the conditions and the perimeter is 3000.

Chandler West - 7 years, 1 month ago

The triangle inequality is an strict inequality. If you draw something with those side lengths, you will have a line.

Luis Rivera - 7 years, 1 month ago

A line is totally a triangle :p Yeah that was dumb of me.

Chandler West - 7 years, 1 month ago

Small note: you may write \pmod x or \pmod{x} if x has more than a character in order to pretty print it like this: ( m o d 500 ) \pmod {500}

Luis Rivera - 7 years, 1 month ago

Oh, thanks!

Ariel Gershon - 7 years, 1 month ago

What I make out of this problem is we've to find 3 integers a>b>c s.t 3 a = 3 b = 3 c ( m o d 10000 ) 3^{a}=3^{b}=3^{c} (mod 10000) Now we can find 3 124 = 3 133 = 3 197 = 8928 ( m o d 10000 ) 3^{124}=3^{133}=3^{197}=8928 (mod10000) so a=197 b=133 c=124 and answer=454 ) Please point out where I'm wrong

Jayanta Mandi - 7 years, 1 month ago

According to WolframAlpha, 3 124 8481 3^{124} \equiv 8481 , 3 133 1523 3^{133} \equiv 1523 , and 3 197 4963 ( m o d 10000 ) 3^{197} \equiv 4963 \pmod{10000} . You've made mistakes somewhere in your calculations.

I know that your calculations are wrong because if 3 124 3 133 ( m o d 10000 ) 3^{124} \equiv 3^{133} \pmod {10000} , then this would imply that 3 9 1 ( m o d 10000 ) 3^9 \equiv 1 \pmod{10000} . However 3 9 = 19683 3^9 = 19683 , which is not 1 mod 10000.

The numbers a , b , c a,b,c have to be at least 500 apart, since 500 is the smallest power of 3 which is 1 mod 10000.

Ariel Gershon - 7 years, 1 month ago

Oh sorry my bad. Infact any power of 3 (mod 10000) could not have 8 in unit place..Don't know why this site gives this sort of results.

Jayanta Mandi - 7 years, 1 month ago

@Jayanta Mandi I tried to calculate these things with python and JavaScript, in both cases it ends up giving wrong digits after 3 33 3^{33} . I think the site is also a victim of this overflow.

Lutfar Milu - 7 years, 1 month ago

We can get that the least number n such that 3 n 1 ( m o d 10000 ) 3^n \equiv 1 \pmod{10000} is 500 (n is called the primitive root of 10000) using the Carmichael's function. It's a pretty neat theorem so you should definitely check it out :D

srnth <3 - 7 years, 1 month ago

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