Zi Song Polynomial

Algebra Level 4

Let f ( x ) f(x) be a polynomial such that

f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 = x f ( x ) . f(f(x)) - x^{2} = xf(x).

Find f ( 100 ) f(-100) .


This problem is posed by Zi Song Y.


The answer is 101.

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17 solutions

Let m = deg f ( x ) m= \deg f(x) . Then, note that deg f ( f ( x ) ) = m 2 \deg f(f(x))= m^2 . Since 2 2 is not a perfect square, deg f ( f ( x ) ) 2 \deg f(f(x)) \neq 2 , and hence deg ( f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 ) = max ( m , 2 ) \deg (f(f(x)) - x^2)= \max (m, 2) . Also, note that deg ( x f ( x ) ) = m + 1 \deg (xf(x))= m+1 .

If m 2 m \geq 2 , deg ( f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 ) = m \deg (f(f(x))-x^2)=m . Equating the degrees, m 2 = m + 1 m^2= m+1 and because it has no integer roots, a contradiction. So m < 2 m < 2 , and deg ( f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 ) = 2 \deg (f(f(x))-x^2)= 2 . Equating the degrees, m + 1 = 2 m = 1 m+1= 2 \implies m=1 . So f ( x ) f(x) is a linear polynomial.

Let f ( x ) = a x + b f(x)= ax+b , so f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 = a ( a x + b ) + b x 2 = x 2 + a 2 x + ( a b + b ) f(f(x))-x^2= a(ax+b)+b-x^2= -x^2+a^2x+(ab+b) And x f ( x ) = x ( a x + b ) = a x 2 + b x xf(x)= x(ax+b)= ax^2+bx

Comparing the coefficients of x 2 x^2 , a = 1 a = -1 Comparing the coefficients of x x , a 2 = b b = 1 a^2= b \implies b= 1 We thus get the polynomial f ( x ) = 1 x f(x)=1-x . It can easily be verified that this polynomial indeed satisfies the given conditions: f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 = 1 ( 1 x ) x 2 = x x 2 = x ( 1 x ) = x f ( x ) f(f(x))-x^2 = 1-(1-x)-x^2= x-x^2= x(1-x)= xf(x) Our desired answer is f ( 100 ) = 1 ( 100 ) = 101 f(-100)= 1-(-100)= \boxed{101} .

Should deg ( f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 ) = m a x ( m 2 , 2 ) \text{deg}(f(f(x))-x^{2}) = max(m^{2},2) instead of m a x ( m , 2 ) max(m,2) ?

Snehal Shekatkar - 5 years, 11 months ago

Is it always true that degree of f ( f ( x ) ) f(f(x)) is the square of the degree of f ( x ) f(x) ?

Rahul Saha - 7 years, 5 months ago

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Yes it is, for f ( x ) = a n x n + a n 1 x n 1 + . . . + a 1 f(x) = a_nx^n + a_{n-1}x^{n-1} + ... + a_1 f f ( x ) = f ( a n x n + a n 1 x n 1 + . . . + a 1 ) ff(x) = f(a_nx^n + a_{n-1}x^{n-1} + ... + a_1) f f ( x ) = a n ( a n x n + a n 1 x n 1 + . . . + a 1 ) n + . . . + a 1 ff(x) = a_n(a_nx^n + a_{n-1}x^n-1 + ... + a_1)^n + ... + a_1 For n 1 n \geq 1 , f f ( x ) = a n ( ( a n ) n x n 2 + . . . + a 1 n ) + . . . + a 1 ff(x) = a_n( (a_n)^nx^{n^2} + ... + a_1^n) + ... + a_1 d e g ( f f ( x ) ) = n 2 \Rightarrow deg(ff(x)) = n^2

Edmund Heng - 7 years, 5 months ago

i think it will be m^2 = m + 1rather than m = m+1

Sagnik Saha - 7 years, 5 months ago

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You're right, edited.

Aditya Raut - 6 years, 8 months ago

Yes indeed. But note that this is also a contradiction, since m 2 = m + 1 m^2=m+1 has no integer roots.

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 5 months ago

please help me understand the second line..... why it would be max(m,2) ?

symon saroar - 5 years, 5 months ago

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There is a typing mistake in the solution. Where it states max(m,2) it should be max(m^2, 2). And also in the following statement, if m>2 then deg(f(f(x)),2) = m there is same mistake. It should be: if m>2 then deg(f(f(x)), 2) = m^2.

Andrea Palma - 5 years, 2 months ago

What if the condition was that it were not a polynomial then can we do the same or will we get other solutions?

neelesh vij - 5 years, 5 months ago

Nice, solved it in the same way

Veselin Dimov - 6 months, 1 week ago

arre baba jani seta! :3

Sagnik Saha - 7 years, 5 months ago

...yet another instance of f(x) being used as a polynomial instead of a function ._.

minimario minimario - 7 years, 5 months ago

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Sorry, guess i should have stated let f ( x ) f(x) be a polynomial :/

Edmund Heng - 7 years, 5 months ago

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Actually, it has been mentioned in the question that f ( x ) f(x) is a polynomial.

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 5 months ago
Zi Song Yeoh
May 20, 2014

It is easy to check that no constant polynomial can satisfy the equation, since that implies that x 2 + k x k = 0 x^2 +kx - k = 0 for all x x .

Let k > 0 k>0 be the degree of f ( x ) f(x) . Then the degree of f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 f(f(x)) - x^{2} is max ( k 2 , 2 ) \max (k^{2}, 2) , and the degree of x f ( x ) xf(x) is k + 1 k + 1 . These degrees must be equal.

Case 1. max ( k 2 , 2 ) = k 2 \max (k^{2}, 2)=k^2 . In this case, k 2 k \geq 2 . By equating the degrees, we obtain k 2 = k + 1 k^{2} = k + 1 , which has no solution in positive integers.

Case 2. max ( k 2 , 2 ) = 2 \max (k^{2}, 2)=2 . In this case, we obtain k + 1 = 2 k + 1 = 2 , and therefore k = 1 k = 1 . Let f ( x ) = a x + b f(x) = ax + b . Substituting and solving yields f ( x ) = 1 x f(x) = 1 - x , so f ( 100 ) = 101 f(-100) = 101 .

What about f(x) = 0?

Krishna Bhatraju - 2 years, 7 months ago

" These degrees must be equal." how do we know that ?

Adithyan Lasdain - 1 month ago
Edmund Heng
Dec 19, 2013

Let's denote d e g ( f ( x ) ) = d deg(f(x))=d . Since there is a x 2 -x^2 term on the LHS, we would wanna know whether it will affect the degree of the whole expression on the LHS.

For d 2 d\geq 2 , d e g ( f f ( x ) ) = d 2 4 > 2 deg(ff(x)) = d^2 \geq 4 > 2 . So the x 2 -x^2 term will not affect the degree of the expression on LHS. Equating the degrees of the equation, d 2 = d + 1 d^2 = d+1 d = 1 ± ( 1 ) 2 4 ( 1 ) ( 1 ) 2 ( 1 ) d =\frac {1\pm \sqrt {(-1)^2 -4(1)(-1)}}{2(1)} where there are no integer solutions. Thus for all d 2 d \geq 2 , they do not satisfy the equation.

For d = 1 d=1 , d e g ( f f ( x ) ) = 1 < 2 deg(ff(x)) = 1 < 2 . So the degree of LHS is 2, equating the degrees, 2 = 1 + 1 2 = 1+1 \Rightarrow TRUE d e g ( f ( x ) ) = 1 \Rightarrow deg(f(x))=1 f ( x ) = a x + b f(x) = ax+b Substituting back to the given equation, a ( a x + b ) + b x 2 = x ( a x + b ) a(ax+b) +b - x^2 = x(ax+b) x 2 + a 2 x + a b + b = a x 2 + b x -x^2 +a^2x + ab+b = ax^2+bx Comparing constants, a b + b = 0 ab+b=0 b ( a + 1 ) = 0 b(a+1)=0 a = 1 , b = 0 a=-1, b=0 Comparing coefficient of x 2 x^2 , a = 1 a=-1 where it also satisfy the constant's equation above. Comparing coefficient of x x , a 2 = b a^2=b b = ( 1 ) 2 b=(-1)^2 b = 1 b=1 So we get f ( x ) = x + 1 f(x) = -x +1 , f ( 100 ) = ( 100 ) + 1 = 101 f(-100) = -(-100) +1=101

升泽 林
Dec 20, 2013

let f ( x ) = 100 f(x) = -100 , then f ( 100 ) = x f(-100) = x

so f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 = x f ( x ) f(f(x))-x^{2}=xf(x)

f ( 100 ) = x ( 100 ) + x 2 f(-100)=x(-100)+x^{2}

x = x 2 100 x x=x^{2}-100x

x 2 = 101 x x^{2}=101x

x = 101 x=101

f ( 100 ) = 101 f(-100)=\boxed{101}

Challenge student note: Can you prove that f 1 ( x ) = f ( x ) f^{-1}(x)=f(x) ?

Aditya Kumar - 5 years, 11 months ago

first statement itself is wrong!...how come f(-100)=x??

Simon Samuel - 7 years, 5 months ago

I think u've mixed up the inverse function thingy. Did u meant f ( x ) = 100 , f 1 ( 100 ) = x f(x) = -100, f^{-1}(-100) = x ?

Edmund Heng - 7 years, 5 months ago

Can u prove ur first satement

avinash iyer - 7 years, 5 months ago
Tanishq Aggarwal
Jan 13, 2014

In these situations with a generalize polynomial, it is best to see if we can narrow down the possibilities for the polynomial.

Let n n be the degree of the polynomial f ( x ) f(x) . If n > 2 n > 2 , then the degree of the terms on the left is n n and on the right is n + 1 n+1 , so its impossible for that to occur and still hold for all values of x x .

If n = 2 n=2 and n n is monic, then the left has degree 1 and the right has degree 3. Again, impossible by our constraints. Even if n n is not monic, the degrees turn out to be 2 on the left and 3 on the right, which is still unequal.

The last, and feasible option, is for f ( x ) f(x) to be linear. If it is linear, then the degree of the terms on both the left and right is 2.

Let f ( x ) = a x + b f(x)=ax+b , so that the given equation eventually simplifies down to x 2 ( a 1 ) + x ( a 2 b ) + ( a b + b ) = 0 x^2(-a-1) + x(a^2 - b) + (ab+b) = 0 (I won't bother you with all the simplification.) For the two sides to be equal for any value of x x , the coefficients of the terms with x x and the constant term must be zero. It becomes clear that for this to occur, a = 1 a=-1 and b = 1 b=1 , so our polynomial becomes f ( x ) = x + 1 f(x)=-x + 1 , and the desired answer of 101 101 follows.

Oops. In my first line, I meant n n to be n 2 n^2 .

Tanishq Aggarwal - 7 years, 5 months ago

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Agh! A poorly written solution when it comes to the values of the degrees, Nevertheless, the values are never equal until you come down to the linear polynomial.

Tanishq Aggarwal - 7 years, 5 months ago
Zachary Chase
Dec 29, 2013

f(x)=1-x satisfies this equation. Plugging in -100 yields 101 \boxed{101}

Abhra Basak
Dec 20, 2013

d e g ( L H S ) = d e g ( R H S ) deg(LHS) = deg(RHS)

If d e g ( f ) = n deg(f) = n ,

then m a x ( 2 n , 2 ) = n + 1 n = 1 max(2n, 2) = n + 1 \Rightarrow n = 1

then f ( x ) = a x + b f(x) = ax + b

f ( x ) = a f'(x) = a

Differentiating both sides,

f ( f ( x ) ) f ( x ) 2 x = f ( x ) + x f ( x ) f'(f(x)) * f'(x) - 2x = f(x) + x * f'(x)

a 2 = 2 x + a x + b + a x \Rightarrow a^2 = 2x + ax + b + ax

( a 2 b ) = 2 x ( a + 1 ) \Rightarrow (a^2 - b) = 2x(a + 1)

Equating coefficients of x and 1,

a = 1 , b = a 2 = 1 a = -1, b = a^2 = 1

f ( x ) = 1 x \Rightarrow f(x) = 1 - x

f ( 100 ) = 101 \Rightarrow f(-100) = 101

It should be max ( n 2 , 2 ) \max(n^2,2) in the third line.

Jorge Tipe - 7 years, 5 months ago
Divyansh Tripathi
Jun 17, 2016

f(f(x)) = x^2 + xf(x). For the ques to be true for all x, value of expression at RHS = LHS. if f(x) is a polynomial of degree>1, f(f(x)) will always have degree > degree of xf(x) and RHS not equals LHS. But if f(x) is a linear function, then f(f(x)) is also linear but xf(x) will be a quadratic. So, we need to remove x^2 from RHS. This can be done by taking f(x)= k-x, for some constant k. Hence, f(fx))= x and xf(x)= kx-x^2. so, RHS= kx and LHS=x. Hence, k=1 and f(x)=1-x !!!!!!

I agree with "we need to remove x 2 x^2 from RHS", but you then need to substantiate why the only way is to "take f ( x ) = k x f(x) = k-x ".

Calvin Lin Staff - 4 years, 11 months ago
Bill Bell
Nov 13, 2015

This problem yields easily to a symbolic solution that parallels that of Sreejato Bhattacharya, except that it's unnecessary to determine the degree of the f ( . ) f(.) . It's simply a matter of defining the function with successively higher degrees until one of them 'works'.

Of course the algebra software has to be up to the task. I first used sympy for this. It couldn't fully solve the equations even for the linear possibility for f ( . ) f(.) . When I tried using it to solve the equations for higher degrees it seemed to go into infinite loops.

Matija Sreckovic
Sep 28, 2015

Yay! I got a level 5 problem right! Unfortunately, I accidentally put in -99 first for some reason, so I lost a bit of points. Anyway.

Let us first discuss which degree the polynomial f ( x ) f(x) can be. Notice that the left side of the equality has the degree m a x ( n 2 , 2 ) max(n^2, 2) , where n = d e g f ( x ) n = deg f(x) (if the degree of f ( x ) f(x) is 0 or 1, the highest degree will be the term x 2 -x^2 . Otherwise, the highest degree will be the square of the degree of the polynomial), while the degree of the right side is n + 1 n+1 , so we're looking for an n n for which m a x ( n 2 , 2 ) = n + 1 max(n^2, 2) = n+1 . n = 0 n = 0 does not satisfy the conditions, while n = 1 n = 1 does. For n 2 n \geqslant 2 , n 2 > n + 1 n^2 > n+1 , so d e g f ( x ) deg f(x) can only be 1.

Now, f ( x ) = a x + b f(x) = ax + b . By inserting this in the equality, we get x 2 + a 2 x + a ( b + 1 ) = a x 2 + b x -x^2 + a^2x + a(b+1) = ax^2 + bx . Since this must hold for all x R x \in \mathbb{R} , all corresponding degrees on each side must be equal, so we get a = 1 a = -1 for the second degree, a 2 = b a^2 = b for the first degree and a ( b + 1 ) = 0 a(b+1) = 0 for the degree 0. By plugging a = 1 a = -1 into either of the latter two equations we get b = 1 b = 1 .

f ( x ) = x + 1 f(x) = -x + 1 , so f ( 100 ) = ( 100 ) + 1 = 101 f(-100) = -(-100)+ 1 = 101

Rik Ghosh
Jan 19, 2014

Let f(x) = ax+b since given equation has power of x upto 2. Now if we substitute f(x) and equate coefficiants of x and x^2 we get a = -1 , b = 1. Therefore f(x) = -x+1 and we get f(-100) = 101

Andres Saez
Dec 24, 2013

In order for this relation to be satisfied, f ( x ) f(x) must be a linear function (note that if f f is a quadratic the left side is of degree 4 and the right side of degree 3, and if f f is constant the left side is of degree 2 and the right side of degree 1). So we have a ( a x + b ) + b x 2 = a x 2 + b x a(ax+b) + b - x^2 = ax^2 + bx . From this, we gather a = 1 , b = 1 a=-1, b=1 , so f ( x ) = x + 1 f(x) = -x+1 . Hence, f ( 100 ) = 101 f(-100) = \boxed{101}

Subh Mandal
Oct 2, 2016

Assume FX to be (-x+n) so degree of eq on lhs and rhs be same solving we get n=1 plug in -100 to get 101.

Karim Mohamed
Sep 19, 2016

Assume (a) to be a solution of f(x) , so f ( a ) = 0 f(a)=0

f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 = x f ( x ) . . . . . . . . ( 1 ) \because \quad f(f(x))-{ x }^{ 2 }=xf(x) ........ (1)

by putting x = a x=a , and f ( a ) = 0 f(a)=0

we get f ( 0 ) a 2 = 0 f(0)-a^2=0 , so f ( 0 ) = a 2 \boxed { f(0)={ a }^{ 2 } }

by putting x = 0 x=0 in equation 1, we have f ( a 2 ) = 0 \boxed { f({ a }^{ 2 })=0 }

by putting x = a 2 x=a^2 in equation 1, and by using the two boxed results, we have a 2 a 4 = 0 a^2-a^4=0

whose solutions are: a = 0 , 1 , 1 \boxed { a=0,-1,1 }

now we check the validity of the three possible solutions:

it's very obvious that a = 1 , 1 a=-1,1 contradicts the solution a = 0 a=0 . this can be checked by substituting a = ± 1 a=\pm 1 and f ( ± 1 ) = 0 f(\pm 1)=0 in equation 1 the result is that f ( 0 ) = 1 0 f(0)=1\neq 0 so we have to refuse one of the two sets. no hard work need to be done to show that a = 0 a=0 is a refused solution. because f ( x ) = x f(x)=x doesn't satisfy equation 1.

now we have f ( 0 ) = 1 f(0)=1 , and f ( ± 1 ) = 0 f(\pm 1)=0

one final note is that the solution a = 1 a=-1 raises the power of f(x) to 2 (i.e. f ( x ) = 1 x 2 f(x)=1-{ x }^{ 2 } ), and consequently the power of f ( f ( x ) ) f(f(x)) to 4. which doesn't satisfy equation 1. whose R.H.S term is of order 3 only. so we have to refuse one of the two solutions, namely a = 1 a=-1 or a = 1 a=1

to guarantee that f ( 0 ) f(0) is satisfied, we have to refuse a = 1 a=-1 , so that the solution ( a = 1 ) ( a=1 ) takes the form: f ( x ) = 1 x f(x)=1-x , which satisfies all previous conditions

so, f ( x ) = 1 x f(x)=1-x

and f ( 100 ) = 101 \boxed { f(-100)=101 }

Abhishek Singh
Aug 31, 2016

F(x)= (-x+1)...It came to me after I saw equation..

Istiak Reza
Jun 20, 2016

I just let f ( x ) = x f (x)=x to get a quadratic equation of f ( x ) f (x)
just swapping x x and f ( x ) f(x) gives us ( f ( x ) ) 2 + ( x 1 ) f ( x ) = 0 (f (x))^2+(x-1)f (x)=0
which gives f (x)=1-x; since f (x) is not equal to 0...now just plugging in -100 gives the result....I'm not sure if there is any fault in this process...if there is any, please help me find it out....

Not sure what you mean by "let f ( x ) = x f(x) = x to get a quadratic equation of f ( x ) f(x) ". Note that f ( f ( x ) ) [ f ( x ) ] 2 f(f(x) ) \neq [f(x) ] ^ 2 .

The rest of the solution doesn't quite make sense to me either.

Calvin Lin Staff - 4 years, 11 months ago

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Sorry for the typing mistake..i have corrected it...I'm trying to explain what I actually did..let's explain term by term...letting f(x)=x , f (f (x)) turns into f(x), x^2 turns into (f (x))^2, xf(x) just becomes f(x)x i.e. remains the same...thus we get an equation f(x)-(f (x))^2=xf (x) and then just rearrange and solve for f(x)..the interesting thing is that the solution comes out to be 1-x..my confusion is that how f(x)=x turns out to be f(x)=1-x..i trusted my calculations and input the result and got it correctl..but I'm still confused on that point. ..

Istiak Reza - 4 years, 11 months ago

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  1. You cannot say "Let f ( x ) = x f(x) = x ". That changes the question completely. It also contradicts your conclusion of "Hence f ( x ) = 1 x f(x) = 1-x ". You made two wrongs to get a "right" result.

  • We use Latex brackets around our math code. I've edited the start of your solution so you can see. Simply type it as \ ( f ( x ) = x \ ) \backslash ( f(x) = x \backslash ) .

  • To start a new line, leave 3 empty spaces at the end of the solution.

  • Calvin Lin Staff - 4 years, 11 months ago

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    @Calvin Lin I got the point..but why did the correct function came out actually?? Was it accidental??? Anyway Thank you very much. ...and also thanks again for those equation writing tips...

    Istiak Reza - 4 years, 11 months ago

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    @Istiak Reza You made two wrongs to get a "right" result. There was no justification of your steps, and you just stumbled onto something that happens to work for this problem.

    Calvin Lin Staff - 4 years, 11 months ago

    One more thing...could you please suggest me how to write those functions and equations in the text??can it be done by a smartphone??

    Istiak Reza - 4 years, 11 months ago

    Let f(x) = x; ......(i)
    Then f(f(x))= f(x)
    f(x) -x² = x* x ;
    f(x) = 2x²
    2x² = x. [Eq. (I) f(x) =x]
    x= 1/2 ; f(1/2) = 1/2
    f[f(x)] - x² = xf(x)
    Now let f(x) =y
    f(y) - x² = xy
    Put y= 1/2
    f(1/2) - x² = x/2
    (1/2) - x² = x/2. ; therefore x= 1/2 or -1
    f(y) = (1+2y)/4 or 1-y
    f(-100) = -199/4 or 101
    f(x) can not be negative due to equal of 2x²
    So answer is 101














    It's not clear to me what you are doing.

    • It is best to specify / explain what you are doing. IE In the first line, are you trying to assert that f ( x ) = x f(x) = x , or are you trying to solve for values such that f ( α ) = α f( \alpha) = \alpha ?
    • Since y = f ( x ) y = f(x) is not independent of x x , we cannot say "Put y = 1 2 y = \frac{1}{2} " because 1. Why must there be such a y y value and 2. This will likely only hold for certain specifc x x , and not all x x .
    • The claim that f ( x ) f(x) cannot be negative is false, since the solution is f ( x ) = x + 1 f(x) = -x +1 .

    Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 1 month ago

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    @Calvin Lin I am not sure why f(-100) = 101 is the only solution. If I let f(x) = 100(100-x), then it satisfies all the conditions given in the problem. Then f(-100) = 20000.

    f(-100) = 100 (100-(-100) = 20000, f(f(-100)) = f(20000) = 100(100-20000) = -1990000

    You can see here also f(f(x)) - x^2 = xf(x). Just put x = 100, and you will get -2000000 on both sides. So why only f(-100) = 101 is accepted as answer. Am I missing something?

    Mrigank Singh - 5 years ago

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    You claim to have shown that:

    f ( x ) = 100 ( 100 x ) f(x) = 100 (100 - x) satisfies f ( f ( 100 ) ) ( 100 ) 2 = ( 100 ) f ( 100 ) f( f(-100)) - (-100)^2 = (-100) f( -100) because we get -2000000 on both sides.

    However, you have not shown that:

    f ( x ) = 100 ( 100 x ) f(x) = 100 (100 - x) satisfies f ( f ( x ) ) x 2 = x f ( x ) f( f(x)) - x^2 = x f(x) for all possible values of x x , and not just a specifically chosen one.

    Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years ago

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    @Calvin Lin Yes! You are right! This is result of not thinking properly ;): I guess the only solution then is f(x) = 1-x, which will satisfy for all x. I messed up somewhere and got the result that f(x) = k^2-kx is going to be general solution, but after solving it again it is evident that k = 1 which gives f(x) = 1-x which satisfies the properties for all x. Otherwise x=k or x=-k will satisfy the property above at only specific values of x. Thanks for your help. Really appreciate it.

    Mrigank Singh - 5 years ago

    Worst solution if your assumption is f(x) = x, because it is so that then your ans must be f(-100) = -100… 1st make any sense between your assumption and your answer

    Himanshu Agrawal - 4 years, 11 months ago

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